Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Jewish Recipients of National Medal of Science

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensus (I count 13-7), and I really wish people would take the time to explain their votes! fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 18:55, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

List of Jewish Recipients of National Medal of Science

We don't have other lists of Recipients of the National Medal of Science with ($ETHNIC|$NATIONAL) affiliation. Wikipedia isn't a vehicle to boost one's pride in one's ancestry. Pilatus 19:31, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete by the same reasoning as the vote about Muslim business leaders. Fairness demands consistency. It's sad to vote against a list that took real time and effort. My suggestion is to host the list privately. Durova 20:21, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete for the same reasons as all the others. This has disquieting tones of racism, and anyway it's listcruft. Just zis  Guy, you know? [T]/[C] (W) AfD? 23:00, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete (sigh) same as always. EscapeArtistsNeverDie 23:20, 20 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Nothing wrong with this list. --Vsion 00:39, 21 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
As people are on a cleaning spree possibly you can just add religious or ethnic affiliation on the main List of National Medal of Science winners--T. Anthony 12:13, 21 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Of course there is. Antidote 04:16, 21 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. LazarKr 07:48, 21 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Being Jewish has only to do with being Jewish. Nothing else. Denni ☯ 03:53, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of Jews (2nd nomination), when if anyone delete, please tell my talk page. --Sheynhertzגעשׁ״ך 07:12, 19 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - this is al very notable. - Londoneye 18:37, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong neutral. Unfortunately, I've had a real WP:V problem with List of Jewish jurists where some troublesome editors resist cleanup out of "ethnic pride" or "identity politics" motives. While I think this collection is notable, I'm starting to lean towards the opinion that categories provide slightly better encyclopedic standards, since editors of each independent page watch it, rather than allowing a couple of POV editors to list "as many names as possible" to push the idea that "people like me" are really groovy (whether or not, in these cases, the names listed are really Jewish; or such can be evidenced). Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters 20:05, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Edwardian 23:03, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep. As a Methodist, I have no interest to declare on this topic other than to make Wikipedia better. I prefer lists tocategories. Unfortunately, I've had a real problem with List of Jewish jurists where some troublesome editors resist the addition of names, however well documented. - RachelBrown 23:20, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Again, too detailed 72.144.71.234 05:11, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep per RachelBrown.-- JJay 06:09, 23 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. As the author of this list (i.e., its true author, not the individual who copied it without permission from my website, JINFO.ORG), I must agree with Pilatus that such a list does not belong in Wikipedia. The stated purpose of the JINFO.ORG website (and its only purpose) is to provide a counterweight to the hundreds of anti-Semitic websites now polluting the Internet with every manner of outlandish allegation concerning the Jewish impact on the world. What JINFO.ORG is attempting to do is to provide a quantitative analysis of just what that impact has been, focusing particularly on modern science, which has been largely responsible for most of the material advancement of the human race over the last several millennia. The only reason for JINFO.ORG's publication of its lists of names is to back up that analysis. None of this appears to be Wikipedia's purpose (with its "List of Jewish Criminals," etc.), nor should it be.
But outside of such a context, Wikipedia's Jewish lists certainly give every appearance of being nothing but a gratuitous display ethnic chauvinism, with the potential of creating even more anti-Semitism. It seems to me that while it would not be be unreasonable to attach to the article on the Jews a list of several hundred of the most prominent Jews in history and perhaps a complete list of Jewish Nobel Prize winners, the listing of thousands of names of scientists who are completely unknown to the general public makes utterly no sense. Even the Wikipedia article on the "National Medal of Science" lists only a few of the most prominent recipients, together with a link to the National Science Foundation database for the rest.
I would also like to point out that the eleven JINFO.ORG webpages that were copied without permission to create the Wikipedia "List of Jewish Scientists and Philosophers" are all copyrighted. JINFO.ORG is demanding the removal of this page; it represents both wholesale copyright infringement and plagiarism (putting a one-line "Reference" at the end of a list of ~1500 names is plagiarism). Wikipedia's predatory behavior toward both JEWHOO.COM and JINFO.ORG has effectively terminated operations at both websites - the only two websites that had been producing credible research on Jewish biography. Not only has massive amounts of copyrighted content been expropriated, but it has been then declared to be "free documentation." Many thousands of hours of highly specialized research were involved in compiling the JINFO.ORG lists; do you have any idea what it's like to become the victim of this sort of outrageous activity? Wikipedia warns its contributors: "DO NOT SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED WORK WITHOUT PERMISSION!" and "by submitting your work you promise you wrote it yourself, or copied it from public domain resources — this does not include most web pages." That seems pretty clear to me. Jinfo 03:57, 24 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Actually I can't see a list of National medal of science recipients on your website. Arniep 19:48, 24 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Try clicking on the "Reference" link on the Wikipedia webpage or go to http://www.jinfo.org/Medal_of_Science.html. Jinfo 20:21, 24 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I have not looked at any alleged copyvio on the article. A list seems like borderline for copyright protection; though if the descriptions of the individuals listed are all copied (not just the facts), it's possible. However, it's certainly true that copyvio is a whole different category of concern than AfD is. Whether the article deserves to exist in a non-infringing way is entirely unrelated to whether the current article infringes; neither decision should be based on the other. If Jinfo believes this article is a copyright violation s/he should look at Wikipedia:Copyright problems, and follow the appropriate mechanisms for removal of copyrighted material.
Speaking only for Australia, a list is certainly copyrightable, even if all the information in it is in the public domain, if effort is involved in compiling the list. This certainly seems to be such a case. Regards, Ben Aveling 06:20, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, needless subtopic. Please keep all nationalities and ethnicities together in one list for NMS recipients. Radiant_>|< 19:51, 24 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per above.  Grue  20:18, 24 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. utcursch | talk 08:17, 25 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete All these unprecedented bloat lists need to go. StabRule 23:39, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and remove any copy vio material (if any). Arniep 17:45, 28 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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