Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lisbon Treaty - Irish Ratification

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. A few people did suggest a redirect but I'm unsure if such an awkward title would be a viable search term. If anyone thinks this would be useful, they are welcome to create a redirect. Seraphim♥Whipp 14:29, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Lisbon Treaty - Irish Ratification (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

This article should be deleted on the grounds that is it wholly inappropriate. The creator of this article stated that: There is confusion in Ireland over whether this will be good for the country or otherwise, and an excess of information from many extreme points of view is adding to this. This article has been created in order to invite an impartial combination of sources into a brief summary to help the general public. This is the job of the Irish Referendum Commission not Wikipedia. Wikipedia is there to provide factual articles on the Lisbon Treaty / Referendum / Ratification not help the general public make up their minds on which way to vote. Wikipedia is not a blog or a forum for discussion. Finally, the points in the article about the ratification of the Lisbon Treaty are not unique to Ireland and will affect the whole of the EU if the treaty is ratified. Snappy56 (talk) 17:15, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. —Snappy56 (talk) 17:18, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom; Ireland's referendum is well covered in the Treaty of Lisbon article. ww2censor (talk) 17:27, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom. This article is an essay on the pros and cons of the treaty, and is not an encyclopedic article in the conventional sense. It is better suited to a blog or similar, and is decidedly suspect in terms of the following Wikipedia principles: Soapbox-esque, Reads like a blog, Reads like a manual, guide or "how to" advice, Does not represent a global perspective, etc. Guliolopez (talk) 17:34, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Agreed, it's also almost exclusively edited by anons who have made almost no other contributions, not grounds for deletion but a little bit suspicious, I wonder would wikiscanner reveal anything?! Snappy56 (talk) 17:46, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland which covers it correctly. This seems to be a fork. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gtstricky (talk • contribs) 17:53, 10 June 2008
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. -- Bláthnaid 19:37, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete I agree with the nominator. This article falls under WP:NOTGUIDE. Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland covers Ireland's referendum on the Lisbon Treaty in an encyclopedic manner. Also, the article will be redundant after Thursday. Bláthnaid 19:43, 10 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nomination, clearly. —Nightstallion 22:20, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom, or rewrite article to fit a more encyclopaedic style. --129.67.162.133 (talk) 21:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge any non redundant content and redirect links to this article to Twenty-eighth Amendment of the constitution of Ireland as per above. I think the suggestion this is an inappropriate topic for wiki is nonsense ~ we are here to inform! - but there is already an article. Sandpiper (talk) 08:01, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom, utterly inappropriate for Wikipedia. And Redirect to Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland as per Gtstricky, which indeed does cover the ratification properly. -- Blorg (talk) 14:08, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete unless it is rewriten as a factual encyclopaedic article, which I think it could be. It is a significant political event after all.PiTalk - Contribs 16:05, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution Bill, 2008 already pretty much covers that. David Mestel^(Talk) 17:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I see, yeah delete then. PiTalk - Contribs 18:55, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. I had a look at the article earlier in the week to see if it was salvagable, with a view to turning it into an article entitled Positions regarding the Twenty-eighth Amendment to the Constitution of Ireland, or entries on Wikiquote. Unfortunately on closer examination, the vast majority of the pro citations were from http://www.labour.ie/lisbonreformtreaty/whyyes/, and the vast majority of the con citations were from http://www.no2lisbon.ie/en/topic/5: the piece was effectively a Labour vs. Sinn Féin polemic. The work involved in obtaining quotations from other sources, pro, con and neutral, was beyond me in the time available: the piece was a bit of an October Surprise. If anybody else wants to devote the time to sourcing the quotations of notable entities concerning this matter then there may be a case for keeping it, but given the referendum is now over there seems little point. The article is unsatisfactory in its present condition per the observations above and there already exists another article on the same subject. If User:Sandpiper wishes to seek and obtain a wide variety of pro, con and neutral sources concerning the referendum then he is perfectly free to do so and place them on the article now entitled Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution Bill, 2008. As for the article entitled Lisbon Treaty - Irish Ratification: delete it. Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 18:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep I think that given that the vote failed, an article is entirely appropriate. It needs to be re-written to be neutral, but it's entirely encyclopedic and notable. GreenJoe 20:06, 13 June 2008 (UTC) Delete and redirect to Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution Bill, 2008. GreenJoe 01:38, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• • Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution Bill, 2008 already pretty much covers that. Anameofmyveryown (talk) 01:14, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
• Treaty of Lisbon is already too long; merge and redirect to Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution Bill, 2008 as this is more or less a duplicate of that with more information. Stifle (talk) 22:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC) Delete, Wikipedia is not for arguments for and against the treaty, violates WP:SOAPBOX among others. Stifle (talk) 22:33, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It happens that the issue of for and against arguments is quite important, particularly to those wishing to resurrect the treaty of Lisbon, which is now a big issue for the EU. wp:soapbox specifically states that a balanced description of a contentious issue is appropriate. I would go so far as to say it was very important that the article on the proposed irish constitutional amendment should include a properly sourced explanation of what were considered the important issues. Anything usefull here should be carried across. Sandpiper (talk) 11:30, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What's stopping you doing just that, User:Sandpiper? Admittedly, it would be hard work plowing thru the thousands of news articles written on the subject and containing quotes from everyone from the former UN Secretary General[1] to the Irish Creamery Milk Suppliers Association [2]. But it's doable and if you think it's worth doing, go do it.

As pointed out above ad nauseam, the article is unsalvageable in its present state - it would be quicker to write a new one and wikinormative (I invented a word!) to place the additions in Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution Bill, 2008 , not Lisbon Treaty - Irish Ratification - and should therefore be deleted. However, the ramifications of the ToL rejection (European peoples - "Yay, beat on the 'crats!"; European governments - ranging from sneaking admiration (UK, Czech Republic, Netherlands, possibly Denmark) to utter, utter contempt (France, Germany, Italy, possibly Poland); the EU institution itself - various, ranging from beating head against wall to rocking back and forth whilst hugging itself; the international community - wetting itself with laughter; Croatia - baffled and hurt as its entry to the EU is now delayed/endangered) will rattle on for months and will have implications for many other articles (European Parliament election, 2009 for a start).

I have therefore taken the precaution of copying Lisbon Treaty - Irish Ratification into my sandbox. Should it become necessary to source info, it may aid as a quick look up.

(Note to self: RTÉ news timelined its news entries, starting from http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0401/eulisbon.html to http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0613/eulisbon.html, also see http://www.ireland.com/focus/thelisbontreaty/). You may now delete Lisbon Treaty - Irish Ratification safely. Regards, Anameofmyveryown (talk) 11:55, 14 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.