Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kick (2012 film)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The discussion below established that the article fails WP:Crystal ball. In the absence of an obvious target to redirect to (two names were given below, in addition to "or any one of the lead actors"), I will delete this article for now. This AfD should not prevent the article from being undeleted or recreated in the future should the film become notable in the run-up to, or after its release. Der yck C. 16:51, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

PS. Since this AfD does not necessarily preclude future recreation of the article, I chose not to remove the red-links caused by this deletion, except on disambiguation and list pages. Der yck C. 16:59, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Kick (2012 film)

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I noticed this article only recently. Per Wp:NFF, no source exists saying that principal photography has commenced. Salman Khan is working on 1 or more films like Ek Tha Tiger, Sher Khan and some other ones. So is Sonakshi. I also came across a source which said that the film will start shooting in 2012, and the year has just began. It is likely to start only in the second half of this year, and till then this shouldn't be an article. It should be deleted, userified, redirected, or merged with minor info. X.One ^SOS 18:13, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~:Redirect: The filming is yet to began which violated WP:NFF. Redirecting the page to the lead actors future projects section will be cool. -- Karthik Nadar 18:18, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: The article also includes material based on a rumor. --Tenebrae (talk) 18:24, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Pending: This is against WP:CRYSTALBALL; sources say such, but there is no word of completion. However, if this debate results a delete, then either I or someone else must keep an eye on that article in case that the film is published in India or Korea. What if this article is created either one week before or at the time the film will be released? --George Ho (talk) 20:11, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

~~Sorry, I didn't get you. X.One ^SOS 05:22, 16 January 2012 (UTC)~~[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:43, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 23:43, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'll rephrase: this article violates WP:CRYSTALBALL, but is it the reason to delete this article? If so, then why would the film to be truly completely made possible? There is no sources yet to prove whether it is a fake or real, but we'll see the upcoming sources about this film. If this article is deleted, and someone creates this article without discussion if the film is completely produced, would WP:G4 be met? --George Ho (talk) 06:21, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, George... this not a violation, as WP:CRYSTALBALL (also sometimes linked as WP:FUTURE or WP:SPECULATION and a few others) does allow that future events might have an article when it offers that if a topic is "of sufficiently wide interest that it would merit an article if the event had already occurred", it "is appropriate to report discussion and arguments about the prospects for success of future proposals and projects or whether some development will occur, if discussion is properly referenced"... with proper caveats against unverifiable speculation... and against insertion of an editor's personal opinion or analysis. And when speaking toward films, that policy specifically advises editors to "take special care to avoid advertising and unverified claims". So forward-looking articles are not disallowed by a policy that explains that yes... they might be written of.. and how.

Point being made is that while the Wikipedia policy WP:CRYSTALBALL does not forbid forward-looking articles, the more cogent arguments above are those refer to the guideline WP:NFF which, like every guideline, ha its occasional exceptions. If deleted here per AFD, a too-soon recreation would fall afoul of CSD G4 only if it were a "sufficiently identical and unimproved copy".

For articles on planned films, we look to see if the topic of the film's production has enough persistant and enduring coverage to be worthy of note... not as a film, but as a topic of a production-in-process. And even barring extensive and persistant coverage, policy allows that the topic still might at least be discussed somewhere... and redirected or merged to related articles such as those of director or producer. (see below) Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 08:16, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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Hindi title: (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Redirect per nom for now to either director Shirish Kunder where it might be spoken of and sourced in context to his oter projects, OR to Kick (2009 film) where it might be spoken of and sourced as a planned remake,[1][2] with no prejudice toward return once we have confirmation of principle filming. Note: THIS is interesting and may hold possibilities, but I do not read Hindi. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 08:16, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think it is wise to redirect to the original film. The director would be a better choice. X.One ^SOS 13:06, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Shirish Kunder or any one of the lead actors. X.One ^SOS 13:06, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The linked sources do not confirm that there's really anything worth redirecting. A rumor about what "might" happen is insufficient. Doczilla _STOMP! 18:42, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Had this been unverifiable speculation, your not wishing a redirect might have merit. Rather than unverifiable "rumour", reliable sources verify that producer Sajid Nadiadwala was contacted by the Korea Tourism Organization about filming in Korea, and that he subsequently signed an agreement to shoot parts of this film in that country.[3] Reliable sources verify that this is to be a remake of the 2009 film, and that A. R. Murugadoss was signed back in 2009.[4] Reliable sources verify that that Salman Khan signed on to the project and that Shirish Kunder is the curent director.[5] Reliable sources reported that Angela Jonsson joined the cast last week.[6] A redirect to where such properly sourced information can be spoken of in context is fine, as policy specifically allows such. As long as such is verifable and does not involve editor's inserting personal opinion or analysis, properly sourced "speculation" is always welcome someplace. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 19:44, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Pending - I changed my mind; this isn't a violation of WP:CRYSTALBALL. Sources say that this film is under production; what happens if it is cancelled? There are cancelled films in Category:Cancelled films. --George Ho (talk) 20:50, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- "Cancelled" is a whole different issue, and would likely prevent any article recreation. But even a cancelled project (were it to happen) might still be mentioned in a filmmaker's, article in context to his career. Yes, nothing is ever for sure... but predicting cancellation at this point is the truly unverifiable violation of WP:CBALL. We don't do that and instead share what is reported in reliable sources. I note that Angela Jonsson was signed to this project only a few days ago. However, and per policy properly verifiable information offered in context to actor's or filmmaker's careers is always welcome in Wikipedia. Being proactive, and in respecting WP:Editing policy, I have done just that and laid ground work for a suitable redirect. My own thought is that it be to that of producer Sajid Nadiadwala, as no matter the changes of directors or possible changes of actors, the remake has been Nadiadwala's verifiable project since 2009 and remains so to the present. I invite you to look at Kick (2009 film)#Remake,[7] Sajid Nadiadwala#Career,[8] and Shirish Kunder#Career,[9] and give your feedback toward which you feel might be the best redirect target per editing policy. Thanks. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 21:32, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds sensible. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:39, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 21:43, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.