Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kathleen Buhle

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. ✗plicit 01:11, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kathleen Buhle (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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There is literally not a bit or a byte of this article that is actually about Kathleen Buhle as a person, it is all coverage in the context of her ex-husband Hunter Biden, or coverage of a book that again, is known because of her past relations. We jsut went through this with Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Finnegan Biden. WP:NOTINHERITED. Zaathras (talk) 00:57, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Solidly passes WP:AUTHOR criterion 3 for writing a notable book (If We Break)CT55555(talk) 01:01, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Er, no, a single political memoir does not meet the "a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work" criteria. Also, fix your line-breaking sig, please. Zaathras (talk) 01:04, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Primarily because I couldn't find a good reason to delete. She isn't hard-disqualified based on WP:AUTHOR - her memoir was "the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews"[1][2][3]. The only way she wouldn't pass is if one doesn't consider her memoir "significant", which is subjective. She also isn't hard-disqualified by WP:INVALIDBIO - despite being the spouse of a notable person, there has been at least some significant coverage by RS where she is the primary topic (like these sources from the article [4] [5]) PhotogenicScientist (talk) 02:05, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Even in WP:NOTINHERITED, there's this bit: Individuals in close, personal relationships with famous people (including politicians) can have an independent article even if they are known solely for such a relationship, but only if they pass WP:GNG. PhotogenicScientist (talk) 13:16, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I mentioned this deletion discussion at WT:WIR CT55555(talk) 01:14, 31 July 2023 (UTC) [reply]

• Comment - We don't even have her birthdate or birthplace. GoodDay (talk) 01:26, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Article states that she was born in Chicago (which is from her memoir). We can deduce that she was born in 1968 or 1969 as she met Hunter Biden in July 1992 when she was aged 23. Her age and date of meeting are cited in the article about her and the article about her book, but paywalls prevents me from fact checking it and so I've not added it. CT55555(talk) 03:37, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong keep – Fully sourced and passes notability standards. DaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk) 07:27, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. CT55555(talk) 12:22, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. We've had several deletion discussions about the authors of notable memoirs. I find it baffling that we might judge a memoir to be notable, but its author and subject to be non-notable. We should have a page about Buhle or her memoir, as her life story is clearly notable. pburka (talk) 14:36, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - passes as a notable WP:AUTHOR of a notable memoir, and is clearly a public figure worthy of an article. Netherzone (talk) 14:55, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree... nothing wrong with this article 216.16.165.206 (talk) 19:14, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to If We Break, a notable WP:NBOOK/partial memoir; there are at least three reputable reviews (including a less-than-positive review from The Washington Post. But there does not appear to be any substantial indication that this is a "significant or well-known work", so WP:AUTHOR notability is not supported. This article also appears to be an WP:INVALIDBIO without WP:GNG/WP:BASIC support for notability from e.g. coverage of Hunter Biden, Naomi Biden's wedding, Finnegan and Jill Biden's Coronation attendance, Buhle and Hunter Biden's divorce, and other trivial coverage or coverage dependent on what Buhle says. Beccaynr (talk) 15:28, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Based on this, I was just about to change my position to 'Merge' content into If We Break - however, I don't think that's the best answer here. As books go, memoirs aren't typically significant or notable, unless the person who wrote them was already somehow notable. An author of a really good novel can be catapulted to fame if their book is a success; however, authors of a successful memoir are typically people who are already well-known.

  Kathleen was known before the publishing of the book - starting from around 2017. And around that time, there was coverage of her as a person. I think the coverage surrounding her divorce COULD be worked into the article on If We Break - as 'Background' or something - but that it would probably be better just to keep this article, and incorporate it here. PhotogenicScientist (talk) 15:55, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  Those results include WP:DAILYMAIL and WP:PAGESIX coverage, as well as People magazine churnalism of Page Six coverage about the divorce. The USA Today (churnalism of WP:NYPOST) and AP coverage focused on sensationalized details of the divorce filings about Hunter Biden (churnalism of WP:NYPOST) (as well as later attempts to protect privacy) seem to help show how this article should be deleted according to WP:BLP policy and the lack of support for notability from independent and reliable sources. Beccaynr (talk) 16:21, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep as Buhle passes WP:AUTHOR and has received significant coverage, albeit some of it due to her being Biden’s ex-wife, she still received that coverage and wrote a notable memoir. — Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 17:46, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Authors and Illinois. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:01, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: United States of America and Politics. Beccaynr (talk) 20:14, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Notability is not inherited, but once a person begins to have non-trivial coverage they can meet GNG. Buhle has clearly met this threshold. Iamreallygoodatcheckers ^talk 04:22, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - A search found wide and extensive coverage, both international and national, of the subject and her memoir. Clearly and easily passes WP:GNG and meets WP:BASIC as well as WP:AUTHOR. -AuthorAuthor (talk) 23:51, 3 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Clearly notable, worthy of her own bio, per WP:AUTHOR, WP:BASIC and WP:GNG rationale explanations listed above. Both the subject and her memoir have received significant news coverage. - 47thPennVols (talk) 17:47, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.