Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jorge Nuñez (singer)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. –Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 02:43, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Jorge Nuñez (singer)

Discuss the alleged irrelevance of this finalist's article. --Cinemaniac86^Oy_gevalt. 16:42, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - this is as a result of the delete close at Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Alexis_Grace_(2nd_nomination). Personally, I think a redirect would be a far better outcome of this process. Fritzpoll (talk) 17:04, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Can the nominator give an actual reason for discussing deletion of this article? — LinguistAtLarge • Talk 16:59, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - But still, what is the argument for deletion for this article, not a different article. It is Jorge Nuñez that is being discussed, not Alexis Grace. Jenuk1985 | Talk 17:01, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or redirect to American Idol (season 8). Whilst the nomination appears a little pointed, I think these should be discussed on the same grounds as the participants at Alexis Grace mentioned. A lack of notability beyond the single event (per WP:BLP1E) of being in American Idol. WikiProject precedents or standards are irrelevant in comparison to our own policies - we already have an article covering the event, so individual articles can be merged there if there is any additional material, in which case a redirect should take place. Fritzpoll (talk) 17:04, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Without having too much knowledge of the article... "If the event is significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article for the person is sometimes appropriate." could probably be applied here, as I understand it American Idol is a rather large event over there, and the contestants have a rather large role within it. Jenuk1985 | Talk 17:07, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - I seriously wish these had been nommed all together - save our copy-pasting! :) I don't think the event is significant - I interpret that to refer to something more important than a TV show. Say the assassin in a presidential assassin - you would expect an article on them, because it was a significant event - a TV show is unlikely to be significant in the same way. Your mileage may, of course, vary Fritzpoll (talk) 17:14, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    - In the grand scheme of things, this TV show is a very significant TV show, not just to television, but to the music industry too. I agree that what I quoted is open to interpretation, but looking at things relatively, it seems to apply. Jenuk1985 | Talk 17:17, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      - But the section you quoted clearly refers to historical significance. In full, it reads: If the event is significant, and the individual's role within it is a large one, a separate article for the person is sometimes appropriate. Individuals notable for well-documented historic events, for example John Hinckley, Jr., fit into this category. The historic significance of events should be indicated by the persistent coverage of the event in reliable secondary sources that devote significant attention to the individual's role. Transient press coverage of a story does not generally indicate an individual who would meet this exception, even if there are multiple independent and reliable secondary sources. - there is no evidence of persistent coverage of these individuals, so they don't get articles...yet! If any of them get to number 1, or anything like that, then the articles should be recreated. But they aren't notable just for being in the TV show, which is essentially a temporary event, meaning that all coverage of them is transient until they do something else. Fritzpoll (talk) 17:23, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. —92.40.72.205 (talk) 17:28, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Puerto Rico-related deletion discussions. —92.40.72.205 (talk) 17:28, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- - - - I read the last bit of that section as giving an example of the application of the guideline, rather than saying it only applies to historical significance. Jenuk1985 | Talk 17:29, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        I'm pretty certain it's to do with historical significance, because it meshes with WP:NOT#NEWS and WP:SBST in terms of Wikipedia's desire to only record individuals who have historical significance. Fritzpoll (talk) 17:35, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        Comment to keep. -The television argument is kinda stupid. Its more than just tv, American Idol is more of a "subcultural phenomenon" and institution given the attention it receives not only from mainstream media and but also from informal sources such as online communities and blogs like Vote For The Worst. I'm sure it will be the subject of study in the future with regards to its cultural impact during the early 21st century. ~~Also, I'm kinda disturbed by Fritzpoll's sexual fetish on assassins, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!~~--23prootie (talk) 01:39, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        Note: Do not make personal attacks to others, per WP:NPA. Comment on the content, not the contributor. Should you continue to make personal attacks, you may find yourself blocked per Wikipedia's blocking policy. Many thanks, Gazi moff 13:51, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or Redirect to series article. Per WP:BLP1E, the subject is only notable for one event. If the subject becomes notable outside of this event, they may warrant an article. In addition, I'm concerned about the article's poor level of sourcing per WP:BIO - for a biography of a living person the required standard of sourcing is set quite high. This content would be much more suitable in the series article already mentioned. As this article only sources to a primary source, it also fails WP:RS for not using reliable, secondary sources independent of the subject. Gazi moff 17:38, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep i say keep, he has reached notability.--Judo112 (talk) 17:44, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Can you elaborate on why? And how he is not simply famous for one event? Fritzpoll (talk) 17:48, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep-- I know this individual because lately this is the only subject that the Spanish media talks about, 1. So, I searched Google news to find out if this was only a Puerto Rican topic and to my surprise the national media is part of this , 2, including Reuters, Hispanic Business and several articles by Latina Magazine 1 2. If the consensus is to delete this kind of articles, I think that a redirect is practical due to his notability in the Latin American media. --J.Mundo (talk) 18:01, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect Since he's done nothing outside the show his contribution to American Idol can be covered in the relevant season article. There's insufficient information to support a separate article. - Mgm|^(talk) 23:29, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete & Redirect - He was eliminated too quickly to actually establish notability, he had some media coverage, but that was recentism at best. The established precedent in such cases is to simply redirect the titlehttp://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/button_sig.png

Your signature with timestamp to the relevant season. - Caribbean~H.Q. 00:42, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep Season is not yet over. Time will tell if he will b famous or not.--23prootie (talk) 03:23, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- He was eliminated already, the rest of the season isn't really relevant here. - Caribbean~H.Q. 04:27, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Caribbean H.Q., non-relevant person. --ApprenticeFan Messages Work 14:13, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per BLP1E. He's done nothing significant. Simply appearing on a show does not make one notable. ₳dam Zel 19:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - all the keep arguments above are basically stating past precedent, which doesn't override WP:BIO and WP:BLP1E. Unless he does something else notable in the future that changes his notability, no one will remember nor care about him next season. Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 20:31, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:05, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Passes multiple criteria in WP:Music, most importantly #9: "Has won or placed in a major music competition." American Idol is one of the biggest music competitions.
Delete: Has done nothing notable outside of Idol. JamesBurns (talk) 00:20, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment leaning towards keep: It's too early to tell whether he will do anything notable or not, the page should stay for at least five months, just like Amanda Overmyer and David Hernandez.
  - Please take a look at WP:SCRABBLE and WP:CRYSTAL - Wikipedia doesn't create articles with the possibility that someone may become notable later on. The correct procedure is to wait until they become notable, then create the article. Gazi moff 13:46, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I do get your point, after all Allison Iraheta was not yet famous three years ago even though she won a reality show. But what I'm worried about is what happens next if this gets deleted. Remember that this was triggered only when Alexis Grace's article get deleted as some sort of an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth thing. If this gets deleted then who knows who's next. I have a feeling that these discussions will be used in the future to delete every other contestant of American Idol up to the point of Kelly Clarkson ether by a crazy fan as payback or a hater of the show. So rather than waste our time by creating a HUGE MESS, I suggest that this article be kept, along with the other contestants this season until perhaps when the season is over.--23prootie (talk) 17:38, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - If this article is deleted Jennifer Lopez and Marc Anthony might get annoyed.--23prootie (talk) 01:05, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
KeepHe is a member of the most watched show on TV. He also is a finalist on that show. How is he not notable?--Jojhutton (talk) 13:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- He isn't a member, he's a contestant. And per WP:BLP1E, being a contestant in a single contest or season doesn't ensure notability. Gazi moff 13:46, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep - Obviously notable. No response to my comment needed. Gage (talk) 21:51, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please read WP:ITSNOTABLE for more information on why this is unsuitable for deletion discussions. Many thanks, Gazi moff 00:18, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:BLP1E & WP:N - most of the sources are blogs. Appearing once on a show really doesn't qualify one for a berth in an encyclopedia. - Biruitorul ^Talk 22:24, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I have suggeted that the articles be kept until a guideline is established on how to deal with these articles but the debate should happen in between seasons. Deleting them now would only inflame the situation and we'll have to deal wuth crazy fans annoyed that their favorite got deleted (Note: See User:Fritzpoll). For now the articles should stay. Please bear with that.--23prootie (talk) 02:17, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Not to sound dogmatic, but appeasing crazy fans shouldn't be a value we place a great deal of emphasis on. - Biruitorul ^Talk 00:53, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Yes they are notable. Look at how much coverage they get when eliminated. And we never know what will happen later. Chris Sligh has written a hit for Rascal Flatts 2 years after being on the show. Actually almost 3. --User:Woohookitty ^{Diamming fool!} 18:50, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Point nomination, article passes criteria #1 and #9 of WP:MUSICBIO, thereby passing WP:BIO. Aspects (talk) 21:38, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Per the note at the bottom of WP:MUSICBIO, I'd argue that the sbject isn't notable outside of the contest they're taking part in, and that a redirect may be appropriate. Gazi moff 21:58, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.