Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jaimal Rathore

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 16:37, 19 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jaimal Rathore (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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The article does not have much notability, 2 sources are not reliable as Language of Love is more of a story than history and the Indian Portrait is an Art Gallery book, the only reliable content we can get tells that he was a commander in Siege of Chittorgarh during 1567-1568 and was killed by Akbar, and this information is already covered in the article Siege of Chittorgarh (1567--1568) so the article should be redirected to the Siege of Chittorgarh (1567–1568). Hagoromo's Susanoo (talk) 10:19, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If the article meets the criteria's of redirection, it is fine to redirect it. But as much I think, article has lack of online references. But it is not based on stories. It is a real character of history. If we will collect history books, we can collect data. I don't know much history of the corresponding region.☆★Sanjeev Kumar (talk) 11:05, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

One of the books is just an Art Gallery, and the other book does not seem historically reliable, as the author himself is not an academic historian, rather an author. The person is real and mentioned, but his reliable mentions do not signify his notability. --Hagoromo's Susanoo (talk) 13:16, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. ^{Babymissfortune} 14:41, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. ^{Babymissfortune} 14:41, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to Siege of Chittorgarh (1567--1568). Could not find any reliable reference that the subject was a Rajput ruler other than a commander of the Rajput forces. Hagennos (talk) 06:02, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Hagoromo's Susanoo: Please correct (herself -> himself). Yes, Jaimal was not a ruler. He was a Siege. I agree with redirection but what about page history?☆★Sanjeev Kumar (talk) 12:10, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have corrected herself -> himself. Thank you for telling me. When a page is deleted its history is also deleted, or archived. I don't know that as I'm not an administrator but that does not matter. Hagoromo's Susanoo (talk) 12:42, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Hagoromo's Susanoo: Thanks for correction. What about a Siege? Are siege not notable for a wiki article?☆★Sanjeev Kumar (talk) 12:54, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Siege is notable but the article already exists about Siege of Chittorgarh (1567-1568). So when the article exists already which has the information, than why can't we redirect Jaimal to it. Hagoromo's Susanoo (talk) 13:07, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

So, I want to understand it a bit more. Like there is an article Space Shuttle Columbia disaster, so we shouldn't keep 7 different pages for the 7 scientists (If we don't have sufficient online references.). I think!☆★Sanjeev Kumar (talk) 17:08, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Astronauts are considered notable if they have undertaken a space mission. That has no relevance here Hagennos (talk) 22:54, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Hagennos: Because, we have sufficient online sources for them! If I could get sufficient online sources for Jaimal Rathore, it could be.☆★Sanjeev Kumar (talk) 12:58, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In case of Astronauts who has been to space as is the case with High schools they are generally considered as notable by community consensus. So the number of references do not really matter. Notwithstanding if there are enough reliable independent references to meet WP:GNG then there is not question. Hagennos (talk) 13:43, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Similarly, I want to say. Since, I am not a history student but whoever have read the history of Rajasthan at high school standards, also know about Jaimal Rathore and can be found in history books of Rajasthan. Even pocket books (of history) like Maharana Pratap have notified Jaimal. Some Hindi newspapers also notified Jaimal for many times (eg.) Surely, I agree that he is not that much notified as much Astronauts are.☆★Sanjeev Kumar (talk) 13:53, 1 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I know that he is notable, but as I've mentioned several times before, we don't know anything about him in reliable sources except his role the Siege of Chittorgarh, that is why redirection is necessary. Hagoromo's Susanoo (talk) 16:08, 6 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. There's probably a lot of work to be done here, but I do see some WP:RS for this person:

^[3] Finding those didn't take a lot of work. This seems notable to me. -- RoySmith (talk) 02:54, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Also, regarding online sources, mentioned above, please note there's no requirement for sources to be online. It's certainly more convenient if they are, but paper sources are perfectly acceptable, if cited properly. -- RoySmith (talk) 13:14, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Just to note - the last two are mirrors of Wikipedia and not WP:RS at all. The first one is one of a hundred fake fronts for the "World Heritage" mirror - they provide minimal licensing through that "citational source" link which directs back to the deleted article here. The second is clearly labeled as a mirror. Kuru (talk) 13:51, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I should have read them more carefully. You're certainly correct about the two wikipedia mirrors. Striking my whole comment. And @DGG:, just in case his comment was predicated on the (non) sources I found. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:31, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. sufficient sources for notability have been presented. DGG ( talk ) 09:25, 11 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

All sources only mention his role in the Siege of Chittor, as said many times before, the notability here does not matter as much as the information around him. All the info here is already in the Siege of Chittorgarh (1567-1568) article. No reliable sources tell about his background or some other notable incident in which he participated. Hagoromo's Susanoo (talk) 10:05, 16 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

As for the central gutenberg project source, that source is from a third party site which is not the official site of World Heritage Encyclopedia and it is not written by any historian, so it is not reliable and the guttenburg source says that Patta was Jaimal's son, which is wrong as Jaimal was from the Rathore clan and Patta from the Sisodia clan. And for that Commanders book in Google books, please mention the page in which Jaimal and Patta are mentioned. Hagoromo's Susanoo (talk) 08:49, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 08:48, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 08:48, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, Jaimal was not just the ruler of Merta, he was also "granted the Jagir of Badnor in 1554 by the Maharana of Mewar for services rendered." - The Indian Portrait (p. 82) [1], that included "Badnor with a thousand villages" - Unfamiliar Relations: Family and History in South Asia: Honoring the Family - Notes (p. 71) [2]. Also, an article in Swarajya magazine - Forgotten Legends: Women Of Chittor Who Were Warriors, Rulers, Administrators, And Poets [3] talks of Akbar being so impressed with Jaimal's defence that he had a statue made of Jaimal and his co-commander and they stood at the Dehli Gate of the Red Fort for hundreds of years. oh, and heres an article from Hindustan Times - Sit rep: Jaimal and Patta, valiant defenders of Chittorgarh [4], that adds some more about Jaimal including "Jaimal also had the experience of command at the siege of Merta in 1562-63 against Akbar’s general, Sharfuddin." Coolabahapple (talk) 12:54, 17 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Available references, some of which are mentioned in the previous !vote and a couple of which I added to the article, do discuss other aspects of Jaimal's role in ruling and defending Merta, as well as his role at the the Siege of Chittorgarh, satisfying both GNG and getting past any "known for one event" issue. 24.151.116.12 (talk) 18:01, 18 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.