Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gay cruising grounds in Britain

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This page is an archive of the proposed deletion of the article below. Further comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or on a Votes for Undeletion nomination). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep the rewrite. Sjakkalle (Check!) 11:34, 25 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Gay cruising grounds in Britain

Unencyclopedic and no hope of becoming so. Wikipedia is not a travel guide nor a directory. Joolz 22:56, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: expanded considerably since nomination - David Gerard 15:27, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nominator reasoning. --Blu Aardvark | (talk) | (contribs) 22:58, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, more useful than a category. Kappa 23:48, 13 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, wikipedia is not a brochure. ~~~~ 00:25, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Can't see the encyclopedic value here. --Calton | Talk 01:05, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, its kind of like having an article on where to pick up hookers in Chicago, completely inappropriate for an encyclopedia. --nixie 04:35, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Transwiki to Wikitravel. --Angr/tɔk tə mi 05:53, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • But Wikitravel is not a WikiMedia project and doesn't use GFDL as far as I know. Won't this violate copyright licences? Peter Isotalo 14:44, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • Indeed. This vote is nonsensical and should be ignored - David Gerard 15:27, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • This could become encyclopedic if it was turned into Gay cruising in Great Britain, and instead of being a list, it talked about the various laws involved, the social impact upon the neighborhoods involved, some of the other factors involved in gay cruisging in Britain, and perhaps even includes some famous people who have been caught cruising. Iff this article is changed, then I would vote to keep. If it remains as just a list of gay cruising areas in Britain, then I vote to delete the article. BlankVerse ∅ 06:24, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Should be treated the same as a teenager's contribution called kool places to pull chicks in Boise, Idaho would be. 82.35.34.11 08:54, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Irrelevant. What would be the correct definition of the "gay cruising ground" (aside from gay bar, maybe). Not to mention that it would be impossible to keep up to date, since every group's favoured hangouts tends to change rapidly - Skysmith 11:31, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Well to you it might be irrelevant that there are special police patrols, prosecutions and homophobic violence in these areas, but others might feel that even minority interests need to be covered. "Impossible to keep up to date" is seems like pure speculation on your part - Hampstead Heath "has been a gay cruising ground since the 19th century." [1] but I suppose that could change any time. Kappa 12:08, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • I agree: cruising in the UK has significant cultural significance (Polari, Hampstead Heath, etc) and a useful essay can be made out of this article. Listing all cruising grounds would be pointless, but an article discussing the general subject of cruising in the UK, its history, etc would be useful and interesting. Axon 12:30, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
        • Article about that could actually make sense. Listing would be pointless for the reasons I stated. Good alternative title, however, escapes me at the moment - Skysmith 19:14, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
        • Well to random page users a list of cruising grounds might be pointless, but to someone actually looking for examples of the type, or wondering about their geographical distribution, it might be quite useful. Kappa 12:47, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename Gay cruising in Great Britain as per BlankVerse's recommendation. --Axon 11:46, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete We're not a guide book. Peter Isotalo 14:44, 14 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep if rewritten as Blank Verse said.
  • Rename as List of gay cruising areas in Great Britain and keep, or rename as Gay cruising areas in Great Britain and rewrite. Exploding Boy
    • By the way, there's plenty of precedence for this type of list. See Category:Sexuality-related lists. Exploding Boy 22:08, July 14, 2005 (UTC)
      • I see none of those as setting a precedent since none of them are this type of list. What would be the point of renaming and rewriting together? That's just creating an entirely different article, which anyone can do right now, if they wanted. -- Joolz 01:27, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • To clarify: my vote is to keep as a list but rename, or, if the consensus is to delete as a list, rename and rewrite as an article on gay cruising areas in GB. I think that's pretty much what Blankverse was suggesting. Or both, really. Exploding Boy 03:50, July 15, 2005 (UTC) Added: there are plenty of lists like this; what's the objection? Exploding Boy 03:52, July 15, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep and follow Exploding Boy's suggestions on renaming. CDThieme 20:32, 15 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Updating this list would not be that hard. Brian1975 03:47, 16 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. What Exploding Boy said. — OwenBlacker 10:27, July 16, 2005 (UTC) (see below)
  • Delete. Wikipedia is not a travel guide. --Conti|✉ 01:33, July 17, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete -- there are websites that perform this function much better than Wikipedia. Haikupoet 20:36, 17 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • There are better online encyclopedias that cover this topic? Kappa 22:02, 17 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • My point is that the topic isn't particularly suitable for an encyclopedia. Cruising in general, yes, but not this particular list. Go to cruisingforsex.com -- I believe it covers international cruising sites. Haikupoet 23:31, 17 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
        • Special social and policing issues are encyclopedic. Kappa 00:22, 18 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
          • I think part of the problem with the suggested repurposing and changing the title is that "gay cruising" is such a modern term,. I've tried to come up with a more clinical and/or historic term, but have failed, so I would like to hear suggestions from others. BlankVerse ∅ 00:58, 18 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Mike H (Talking is hot) 21:17, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

I think we need to make clear what we're arguing about here, because the waters are getting muddied. The real question we need to be answering is does a list of gay cruising areas belong on Wikipedia? The answer, I think, is yes. There are dozens of lists on Wikipedia, many of them related to sexuality and sexual behaviours and acts, and many of them far less interesting, useful or long as this. As to issues of naming, those are separate from the main question. Exploding Boy 20:05, July 18, 2005 (UTC)

  • Keep/Rename as per BlankVerse's suggestion (and I've gone and done the start of the necessary history/legal information) --Skud 13:04, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - there are plenty of other places that do this a lot better and I would worry that promoting an illegal act in this way could bring wikipedia into disrepute. -- Francs2000 | Talk 13:43, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • I do not think it is an illegal activity. -- Joolz 13:50, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • Cruising isn't per se, but it leads to criminal activity under the Sexual Offences Act 2003. -- Francs2000 | Talk 13:58, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
        • I'm no expert on cruising, but what offense are you saying it leads to? -- Joolz 14:01, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
          • Sexual activity in a public lavatory, under section 71 of the act. Just FYI; no value judgement implied -- I don't think that it should be excluded from WP on the grounds of the subject of the article being illegal. --Skud 14:07, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • How is this supposed to be promoting anything? Perhaps we should delete List of serial killers by country too. Kappa 14:12, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • There's really no need to leap on the defensive like that. Besides I've changed my vote. -- Francs2000 | Talk 16:59, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Note all votes from this point on deal with the expanded version of the article. It's no longer just a list. -- Francs2000 | Talk 17:51, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep expanded version - David Gerard 15:27, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Having looked at the (heavily) revised edition that was produced just after I judged the deletion-worthiness of the page I'm changing my vote to keep. -- Francs2000 | Talk 16:33, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, notify WikiTravel. Radiant_>|< 17:46, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep the revised and encyclopedic version (although Gay cruising in Britain seems like a more likely home). — mendel ☎ 18:25, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
    • If it does end up being kept I don't see much case for excluding Northern Ireland, so I'd suggest "in the United Kingdom" would be a better name. -- Joolz 19:42, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep; Exploding Boy 19:19, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. Article now is an encyclopaedic history of a social phenomenon. David | Talk 20:35, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Change vote to Keep -- new article is far more encyclopedic than the original. Haikupoet 23:57, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, although I think the title rather infelicitous.--Cyberjunkie | Talk 06:07, 20 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Definately a keeper now. My original vote was keep iff rewritten. The new article is a very good start on the type of article I was thinking of when I made my original comments and it certainly deserves to be in the Wikipedia in this new version. I heartily applaud those responsible for the rewrite. (I still suggest that the article needs to be renamed, however.) BlankVerse ∅ 08:47, 20 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Axon (talk|contribs) 10:23, 22 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Definitely keep, though I'm inclined to agree with mendel that it should be renamed. Like Joolz, I'd suggest Gay cruising in the United Kingdom (we don't name things for Great Britain, as a rule). — OwenBlacker 13:14, July 22, 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. Revised, it is encylopedic. aliceinlampyland 12:45, 23 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. The article is improved, but the topic is still not encyclopedic, and I would argue is itself biased - when will we see an article Straight cruising grounds in Britain? Ambi 09:56, 25 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. If determined appropriate, transwiki to Wikitravel. --Blu Aardvark | (talk) | (contribs) 09:58, 25 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in an undeletion request). No further edits should be made to this page.
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