Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Celebrities who use their middle names as their first names

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. (non-admin closure) Aydoh8 (talk | contribs) 11:59, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Celebrities who use their middle names as their first names (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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While the phenomenon of using the middle name as first name could have an article (and is already discussed at Middle name#Middle name as primary forename), a list of every single notable person doing this would likely be way too large, and I haven't seen them discussed as a group in reliable sources. For virtually any person on this list, them using their middle name instead of their first name is at best trivia, and not connected to their notability, making this ultimately non-encyclopedic. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 09:45, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Lists of people-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 10:43, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy delete. Tagged as A3 since the page consists of only links elsewhere and contains no other content whatsoever. I'm surprised it wasn't tagged under this criterion by another reviewer before. Keep since the article has been improved considerably, and is completely different from the empty stub that I nominated for speedy deletion. CycloneYoris ^talk! 02:05, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Speedy has been rejected twice. Geschichte (talk) 08:05, 21 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep I expanded the article and sourced it. If it is kept, the title should probably be changed to Famous people who use their middle names as their first names, and it should probably be alphabetized too, and it also needs categories. Isaidnoway (talk) 01:42, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks! The expansion is good, but doesn't address the problem of this not being a defining characteristic of the vast majority of people mentioned, making this listing indiscriminate. Indeed, the vast majority of sources treating these people as a group are celebrity gossip sites (BuzzFeed, PopSugar...). Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 19:02, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The article is compliant with our verifiability policy and our relevant guideline on stand alone lists, because it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, so WP:INDISCRIMINATE does not apply here, nor is the criteria for inclusion based on it being a defining characteristic. If we went by your defining characteristic argument, there would be no list articles on WP. And your argument about BuzzFeed or PopSugar, or any other of the multiple sources used in the article is really not applicable, because they are not spreading "gossip", rumors, tittle-tattle, unfounded claims or titillating claims about people's lives. Isaidnoway (talk) 01:30, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  No, even if what you call "independent reliable sources" aren't directly making BLP violations, it doesn't mean that they are actually considered reliable for the purpose of notability. See WP:BUZZFEED, WP:WHATCULTURE...
  Also, you can't really compare this to a list of lists (which exist for navigational purposes and operate on different standards). WP:LISTCRITERIA clearly states If this person/thing/etc. weren't X, would it reduce their fame or significance? In this case, the answer is pretty obviously no for the vast majority of people listed. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 01:53, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I've removed whatculture as a source per your comment and RSP, and Buzzfeed is not the sole source used to establish notability, so that is a red herring. WP:LISTCRITERIA also clearly states Would I expect to see this person or thing on a list of X? And the answer is yes, as evidenced by multiple people listed being featured in multiple sources. Additionally, WP:LISTPEOPLE (which this list is) says - Because the subject of many lists is broad, a person is typically included in a list of people only if both of the following requirements are met:

  • The person meets the Wikipedia notability requirement.
  • The person's membership in the list's group is established by reliable sources.

  Both of those requirements have been met for people on the list. Isaidnoway (talk) 09:12, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Article has been alphabetized and categorized, see below for suggestion on new proposed title, instead of "Famous people". Isaidnoway (talk) 02:03, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Some of the references are reliable sources, others I'm not sure about. But this does get coverage in Seventeen Magazine, etc. When nominated for deletion, it was just some names without any references. Isaidnoway did a lot of improvements. Dream Focus 22:59, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment — So editors can get a sense of what the article looked like when it was nominated – June 20, 2024. I also think a more advisable title would be List of people who use their middle names as their first names, since the names on the list are so diverse. Isaidnoway (talk) 02:00, 25 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment With @Isaidnoway's recent improvements and the plethora of sources showing that it is indeed a notable list topic, I no longer consider that the article should be deleted, and am ready to retract the nomination if possible. Thanks a lot for your work on the article! Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 10:26, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.