Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bulgarian views on the Macedonian language

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus for deletion, default to keep. This is because several "delete" opinions advocate merging the contents of the article to Political views on the Macedonian language, which does not require deletion and can be done independently from this AfD if there is consensus for it. Also, WP:ATA deletion arguments are disregarded, I'll not read through an entire article talk page to look for a deletion rationale, POV is generally are a reason to edit an article and not to delete it, and any possible disruption can be dealt with easily under the proposed remedies of Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Macedonia. Sandstein 06:55, 1 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bulgarian_views_on_the_Macedonian_language

Content not suitable for an encyclopedia Capricornis (talk) 19:28, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I nominated this article for deletion because its content is not suitable for inclusion in an encyclopedia. It elaborates on a nationalistic POV in biased and offensive language, using well known nationalistic sources. It is a detail page from Political views on the Macedonian language where the Bulgarian view is already explained in enough depth (while the others aren't). The current article adds no value to an ordinary encyclopedia user, but only incites nationalistic debates, hatred and intolerance among editors as can be seen from the discussion and history of the article. A good background overview of how Bulgarian POV persists in Macedonian Wiki pages can be found at the expositions of the current arbitration case Macedonia Arbitration Capricornis (talk) 19:52, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I'm not sure how this article can ever acheive a neutral POV. Tx17777 (talk) 19:56, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - A pretty obvious nomination (which itself is POV enough). I'd just like to point out that the article has enough reliable sources (not Bulgarian) and with a little work it can be turned to NPOV. Off course this is not suiting the view of User:Capricornis who instead of trying to work on the article and amend what he views as POV, he simply nominates it for deletion. --Laveol ^T 20:07, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I do not see how this article fits into an encyclopedia. It would be like having an article called "French views on the English language". Besides the fact that in essence it is a POV article I see no use for it. The article also seems to be an excuse for posting prejudice such as claiming the language was "Serbianised". This sort of non-sense should be not spread world wide. Ireland101 (talk) 21:13, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Delete some of this info. merits inclusion (somewhere) and should be merged (somewhere), but an article on one POV without even a Criticisms section is hard to support. JJL (talk) 21:59, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Articles of the format "X's views on Y" are, almost by definition, POV forks. If X's views on Y are notable, they can legitimately be integrated in the article on Y, where the breadth of their coverage must be balanced according to the "no undue weight" principle. Giving them a separate article instead just means giving them extra uncontrolled soapboxing space, where this requirement for balance can be conveniently ignored. This one is blatantly non-neutral, so there isn't much that would be worth merging back into the main article either. Fut.Perf. ☼ 23:15, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. See my comments on Talk:Bulgarian views on the Macedonian language. Alex 202.10.89.28 (talk) 00:39, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Use the material in the article to support and expand the section in Political views on the Macedonian language. Whoever complains of undue weight, then, let him put more weight (sourced) on his POV rather than deleting sourced material from the other POVs detailed there. However, if this nomination is made only to remove Bulgarian POV on "Macedonian Wiki pages", I instead wish to clarify what is meant by "Macedonian Wiki pages" and whether those are intended to include only the POV propagated by some Macedonian nationalists in the Republic of Macedonia. Still, however, transfer of material to Political views on the Macedonian language is a better move because the proposed article contains enough non-Bulgarian sources that support the view that Macedonian language is a Bulgarian dialect (a POV which I do not share, at least for a term used to refer to the contemporary (after the beginning of 1960s) official language in the Republic of Macedonia), so that calling this a "Bulgarian view" (Bulgarian POV) is misleading. I think that it is even better to rename the article Political views on the Macedonian language to Views on the Macedonian language and include there all views (linguistic, as well as political), making a careful distiction between those by putting them in separate sections. Lantonov (talk) 11:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bulgaria-related deletions. -- the wub "?!" 13:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Macedonia-related deletions. -- the wub "?!" 13:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletions. -- the wub "?!" 13:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep One of the voters for deletion above said 'It would be like having an article called "French views on the English language".'. Err, not in the slightest. Macedonian has a complicated relationship with both Serbian and Bulgarian, and the question of its identity is a big one in discussions of what differentiates a language from a dialect, as well as being a good example of such issues when there is a dialect continuum. Much of the language expressing the Bulgarian POV is actually reporting the view rather than suporting it (some could be tidied up). I don't know the contributors involved, but wonder whether some of the complaints about POV might be because of a different POV, rather than from a desire to represent all sides of an argument. So quite a strong keep, unless it was all to be moved into Political views on the Macedonian language. Drmaik (talk) 14:25, 26 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I didn't expect to say this--until I looked at the article. there is enough material for a separate article, and there seems to be an attempt a NPOV here, both sides being represented. I have no object to an article on French views of the English language, either. --there should be a good deal of sources & I encourage anyone who wants to give it a try. DGG (talk) 01:51, 27 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.