Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bonnie Bo (2nd nomination)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. I see a consensus to Keep this article. Liz Read! Talk! 23:10, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bonnie Bo

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Bonnie Bo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Delete: as non-notable. Thoroughly unconfirmable in all regards. Only one valid link which is remotely intelligible and it is a fluff interview. Claims she participated in Chinese filmmaking are debunked by a complete absence of any presence on IMDb. Nirva20 (talk) 22:41, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:

    People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.

    • If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.
    Sources
    1. Zhang, Yi 张漪 (2014-11-17). "《坏姐姐》编剧柏邦妮：女汉子心里都有一个萌妹子" ["Bad Sister" screenwriter Bonnie Bo: Every woman has a cute girl in her heart]. Yangtse Evening Post (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2022-10-17. Retrieved 2022-10-17 – via People's Daily.

      The article notes from Google Translate: "The name Bo Bonnie may be familiar to many Nanjing netizens, because when Xici Hutong was popular for a while, Bo Bonnie "has been haunted" in many movie music and literary editions, and she has also built her own discussion section. At that time, she was still in college. She was born in 1982 and is from Lianyungang. After graduating from high school, she was admitted to the film and television department of Nanjing University of the Arts, but after more than a year, she went to the Beijing Film Academy as an auditor. After that, she has experience in media work, column writing, and book publishing, and gradually clarified her writing direction. A few years ago, she was admitted to the Beijing Film Academy for a master's degree and systematically studied screenwriting."

    2. "《拆婚联盟》编剧柏邦妮:黑遍十二星座" ["Marriage Breaking Alliance" Screenwriter Bonnie Bo: Black Twelve Constellation] (in Chinese). Sina Corporation. 2014-10-27. Archived from the original on 2022-10-17. Retrieved 2022-10-17.

      The article notes from Google Translate: "Bonnie Bo is a legend. She once attracted much attention for being the top student in the college entrance examination who dropped out of school. She also became popular on the Internet because of "A Letter to My Sister"; she was affectionately called "the first in the West Temple" by netizens. Talented Girl", also participated in the screenwriting work of the new version of "Dream of Red Mansions" as the main force of "Youth Dream Team". After graduating from Beijing Film Academy with Zhao Wei [microblogging], she switched back and forth between the two professions of writer and screenwriter, non-stop. She is a post-80s female screenwriter and a leading figure in the new generation of writers."

    3. Zhang, Jingjing 张晶晶 (2013-08-02). "见好柏邦妮" [Meet Bonnie Bo]. China Science Daily [zh] (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2022-10-17. Retrieved 2022-10-17.

      The article notes from Google Translate: "Zhang Shanshan, who left Nanjing University of the Arts and went north, gave herself a new name called Bo Bonnie. ... In the summer of 2002, Zhang Shanshan, a former top student in the college entrance examination for arts in Jiangsu Province, chose to drop out; in 2007, Bo Bonnie, an auditor of the Beijing Film Academy, was admitted to the graduate school of the Beijing Film Academy and became Zhao Wei's classmate. ... This spring, Bonnie Bo was invited to Japan to interview female photographer Ninagawa Mika."

    4. "编剧柏邦妮：兴高采烈奔跑的八十后(图)" [Screenwriter Bai Bonnie: Happy 80th Generation (Photo)]. Xiaoxiang Morning Herald [zh] (in Chinese). 2010-07-23. Archived from the original on 2022-10-17. Retrieved 2022-10-17 – via NetEase.

      The article notes from Google Translate: "Bonnie Bai, whose name comes from the 1960s Hollywood love movie "Bonnie and Clyde", is the Bonnie who "looked at each other and smiled with Clyde, shot 167 times in the sun, fell to the ground and died". She fled from a university that "couldn't see her ideal", went to Beiying as an auditor, and was admitted to a graduate school."

    5. Liu, Chengxian 刘成献 (2009-07-30). Zhu, Kaili 朱凯莉 (ed.). "柏邦妮：像38D一样骄傲地生活" [Bonnie: Live proudly like 38D]. Tianshannet (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2016-03-04. Retrieved 2022-10-17.

      The article notes from Google Translate: "Born in Lianyungang City, Jiangsu Province in 1982, Bonnie Bo was born in Lianyungang City, Jiangsu Province. Both parents work in scientific research institutions. ... In the year of the college entrance examination, Bo Bonnie lived up to the expectations of her parents and was admitted to the Nanjing University of the Arts with a high score in the province's art category. ... In 2006, after four years of audition and study, Bonnie Bo was successfully admitted to the Literature Department of Beijing Film Academy to study for postgraduate studies. ... In March 2008, Bonnie Bo suddenly received a call from the "Dream of Red Mansions" preparatory team, inviting her and 8 other young screenwriters to write the script for the new version of "Dream of Red Mansions"."

    6. Zheng, Yi 郑屹 (2015-04-24). "柏邦妮：我和我的抑郁症" [Bonnie Bo: Me and my depression] (in Chinese). Phoenix Television. Archived from the original on 2015-04-27. Retrieved 2024-03-19.

      The article notes from Google Translate: "Bai Bonnie, born in 1982, is a Capricorn. Her ancestral home is Wuxi, Sichuan, and she grew up in Jiangsu. In the year of the college entrance examination, she was admitted to the Nanjing Art Institute with the top score in the province's art category. After being a weird student for a year, she decided to drop out and become an auditor at the Beijing Film Academy. The year she came to Beijing, she started writing online and never stopped. The collection of essays "Love You Like Bonnie" and the interview records "Untrue" and "Not Beautiful" are her masterpieces. Her latest work "Meeting Good" was released last year. Her screenwriting works include "Dream of Red Mansions", "Mulan", "Liao Zhai Qingfeng", etc., and her recent screenwriting work is the Korean movie "Bad Sister: Breaking Up the Marriage Alliance". This movie was rated 4.5 on Douban and made Bonnie "collapse" for a month.""

    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Bonnie Bo (Chinese: 柏邦妮) to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard (talk) 10:04, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How are these CCP outlets "independent " of anything? Nirva20 (talk) 17:45, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#Xinhua News Agency:

Xinhua News Agency is the official state-run press agency of the People's Republic of China. There is consensus that Xinhua is generally reliable for factual reporting except in areas where the government of China may have a reason to use it for propaganda or disinformation. Xinhua is also generally reliable for the views and positions of the Chinese government and its officials. For subjects where the Chinese government may be a stakeholder, the consensus is almost unanimous that Xinhua cannot be trusted to cover them accurately and dispassionately; some editors favour outright deprecation because of its lack of editorial independence. There is no consensus for applying any one single label to the whole of the agency. Caution should be exercised in using this source, extremely so in case of extraordinary claims on controversial subjects or biographies of living people. When in doubt, try to find better sources instead; use inline attribution if you must use Xinhua.

From Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources#China Daily:

China Daily is a publication owned by the Chinese Communist Party. The 2021 RfC found narrow consensus against deprecating China Daily, owing to the lack of available usable sources for Chinese topics. There is consensus that China Daily may be used, cautiously and with good editorial judgment, as a source for the position of the Chinese authorities and the Chinese Communist Party; as a source for the position of China Daily itself; as a source for facts about non-political events in mainland China, while noting that (a) China Daily's interpretation of those facts is likely to contain political spin, and (b) China Daily's omission of details from a story should not be used to determine that such details are untruthful; and, with great caution, as a supplementary (but not sole) source for facts about political events of mainland China. Editors agree that when using this source, context matters a great deal and the facts should be separated from China Daily's view about those facts. It is best practice to use in-text attribution and inline citations when sourcing content to China Daily.

I consider the state-owned media publications listed here to be sufficiently reliable and independent for factual areas since the author and screenwriter Bonnie Bo is not an "are[a] where the government of China may have a reason to use it for propaganda or disinformation".

Cunard (talk) 19:24, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep per Cunard's research. Also, the nominator removed three citations from the wiki article simply because they were no longer active links, and removed some relevant content from the article as well. Persingo (talk) 05:21, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Text removal explained in edit summary (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bonnie_Bo&diff=1214592174&oldid=1214590663). Removal of dead Chinese language external links requires no explanation. Nirva20 (talk) 18:11, 20 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    In this edit [1], you removed four statements which are all verified in the articles Cunard posted above (at least two of which were already in the article when you started editing it), namely: her parents worked in research institutes; she was champion of the province's art examination; she was admitted to the Nanjing Arts Institute; and she dropped out of that school. In terms of deleting links, it is never appropriate to remove a source (which those external links were -- they were not labeled sources but as the article had no inline citations they obviously were) simply because it is dead. Internet archives like the Wayback Machine can be used to find archived copies, as Cunard has done above. If you had checked the sources that were in the article before you started editing it, and replaced dead links where necessary, you would very likely have found all four of those relevant statements that you deleted were verified therein. If not, the appropriate action would have been adding a "citation needed" tag to that which you could not find a citation for, rather than deleting relevant information. The article already has a notice at the top that it lacks inline citations. Persingo (talk) 02:29, 21 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Cunard's sources seem to be sufficient, and I don't really see why the CCP outlets should be discounted. We don't discount the CBC on most Canadian topics, nor do we discount the VOA on most American topics. ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 14:29, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments: I am not convinced that a TV screenwriter is automatically notable, even for a major network show, but that seems to be the consensus here.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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