Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Blechreiz

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus, default to keep. Concerns about lack of discussion in reliable secondary sources seem valid, but there is definitely not a consensus for deletion. Article is still fairly new but does eventually need to be properly sourced with inline citations which will help with establishing notability. If that does not happen in the future and notability is still questionable a second trip to AfD would not be unwarranted. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 20:39, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Blechreiz

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non-notable band. If it were one of the "most important German ska bands of the 1990s", its reformation in 2008 should have produced some notice in reliable sources, but none can be found. Article created by a member of the band. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 19:30, 19 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 01:00, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: I can't find significant coverage for this band. Joe Chill (talk) 01:17, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
KEEP!: I do not understand why you don't. I google alert the band which I am indeed a member of every day. and get coverage often. have a look at http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&lr=&safe=off&um=1&q=%22Blechreiz%22&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw&tbo=0, http://images.google.de/images?hl=de&lr=&safe=off&um=1&q=%22Blechreiz%22&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi, http://video.google.de/videosearch?hl=de&lr=&safe=off&um=1&q=%22Blechreiz%22&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iv&tbo=0# or http://www.myspace.com/blechreiz AND of copurse at the sources related to the site(s). As far as sources go, I guess this is a rather big problem with lots of subcultural phenomens: They are usually not mentioned in "serious" writings, fan-zines (which provided a written source before) have almost completely move to the net (i.e. they do not exist on paper any more). Fact is that Blechreiz has recorded seven LPs and a few more records, used to play up to 50 gigs a year and still does some 15 now; at our last concert in berlin, 800 people appeared. gigs are crowded with 200-400 people not just in Hamburg, but in remote places in Germany's East or Czechia, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ruediger.rossig (talk • contribs) 13:39, 20 January 2010 (UTC) — Ruediger.rossig (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Comment But none of those search results is significant. Basically, they are all either sites maintained by the band themself, or are mere music listing services where practically any and every band in the world can get their music listed. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 13:45, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on comment More sources, not done by anybody in the band:

1. the films quoted in the Filmography, esp. “Ska in Berlin” – ORB (Ostdeutscher Rundfunk Brandenburg television station) – Report on Blechreiz’s 10th anniversary, „Berlin-Warzawa“ – Live video of the Friendship Concert in Warsaw, Poland filmed by Polish TV 1 television station, „Which Side Are You On?“ – Television documentary (Arte/Yildiz Film)

2. http://www.skalovers.de/loves/videos/Blechreiz/28-Blechreiz+Potsdamer+Ska+Festival.html (and other mentionings on that site)

3. http://festivals-2009.festivalticker.de/festivals/potsdamer_skafestival/, http://www.jazzclub-leipzig.de/nc/jazzkalender/jazzkalender-detail/article/ut-connewitz-blechreiz-the-rudementaries.html?tx_ttnews[backPid]=29 and many more mentionings in festival-announcements in 2008 and 2009.

4. A new dvd from the biggest Punk-festival of Germany: "Force Attack 2009 - die beste Punker-Party der Welt" (The best punk party of the world), dröönland production, Rostock 2009

5. Infos about releases etc. on http://www.myspace.com/porkpieska (the biggest ska-label in Germany and all neighbouring countries), http://www.skarorecords.de/shop/CD_SKA_HAUPTSTADTSKA2/index.html...

6. Various mentionings in forums of ska-lovers like http://www.allska-forum.de/showtopic.php?threadid=3300, www.skatime.de, www.ska-talk.org...

7. Various music-download and sales offers on ebay, www.musicload.at, mp3.soundquake.com... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ruediger.rossig (talk • contribs) 14:11, 20 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment While the ORB mention might indicate notability, without a viable link to indicate that this band was mentioned significantly in the ORB broadcast, this reference is not verifiable.

The other "filmography" listings also do not indicate that the band was featured prominently in the films, or whether it was instead just one of a group of bands that happened to be at a festival when the festival was being covered.

The "ska lovers" reference is a user forum, and as such is not considered a reliable source.

The FestivalTicker piece is a single-line mention of the band, not significant coverage. The JazzClub Leipzig piece is merely a calendar listing of their appearance.

Appearance in a punk-festival is not, in itself, significant.

Releases noted at myspace, forums, etc, are not considered indications of notability.

In sum, none of the arguments made by Ruediger.rossig (talk · contribs) above meet any of the criteria at WP:MUSIC. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 18:32, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP Not yet mentioned above were Audio CDs and MP3 downloads listed on amazon.com/amazon.de. --92.229.252.33 (talk) 18:01, 21 January 2010 (UTC) — 92.229.252.33 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Comment The availability of CDs for sale does not make a band notable. Please refer to WP:MUSIC. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 18:14, 21 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The dates of the above mentioned emissions ORB and arte need to appended - which in the case of the ORB emission is no trivial task as this radio station no longer exists and has no representing website. Blechreiz has been and still is a noted and notable band in Germany, it is mentionend in various publications like those of de:Klaus Farin and de:Eberhard Seidel-Pielen (e.g. Klaus Farin, Eberhard Seidel Pielen: Skinheads, Klaus Farin: Die Skins: Mythos und Realität, Markus Messics: Skinheads: Antirassisten oder "rechte Schläger"?) and have found their way into various Rocklexika (encyclopedias of rock music), like Michael Graf: Rocklexikon Deutschland. Entries for Blechreiz are found in online encyclopedias like Lexikon der Pop- & Rock-Musik and laut.de. --Burkhard (talk) 09:43, 24 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per User:Drahkrub. Also, the article was created less then a week ago. Perhaps more time should be given for development prior to nomination for deletion.--Pink Bull 00:16, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.