Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Barbara of Württemberg

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. This article has undergone drastic changes and expansion since it was nominated. I think the editors weighing in later in the process are assessing its current state. Originally, it was criticized for only having one source, on genealogy, but that is no longer the case. If editors are interested in redirection or merging at this point, please start a discussion on the article talk page. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:29, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Barbara of Württemberg

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Fail to pass WP:GNG. I searched for sources but can't find much. Jimandjam (talk) 10:19, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Jimandjam (talk) 10:19, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Royalty and nobility, and Germany. Shellwood (talk) 10:25, 8 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: This article is of historical interest. Sources are not likely to be found by internet searches. A further source is given in the French and Italian versions of the article.--Ipigott (talk) 06:30, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - historical figure, notable from position in royalty. Editor not being able to find online sources does not imply lack of notability. Sources likely to be offline. MurielMary (talk) 23:35, 9 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The article has no substantial sources. It also says nothing of substance about her. Wikipedia is not a biographical dictionary. If all we can say about someone is who their parents were, who they married and who their children were, we do not need an article on them period.John Pack Lambert (talk) 15:47, 11 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to husband's page - a solely genealogical entry entirely made up of vital events - births, marriage and death. There isn't a single item of information that isn't found on her husband's or father's pages, except for the undocumented claim that all of her life events occurred at Stutgart, which if it is even authentic can be added without a formal merge. No indication of notability, and even if she was, this is crying for WP:NOPAGE. Agricolae (talk) 22:24, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Ipigott. Notable historical nobility figure with articles on four other wikis. Not all the sources have to be online and/or in English.--Darwinek (talk) 16:45, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to her husband's page per above. I looked at the other four, and except for the Ukrainian, they are all copies of each other or this one, excepting padding out with family tree diagrams. The Ukrainian article has more about her family, but nothing additional about her. There's nothing that needs be said about her that isn't already in her husband's article, and her marriage is the only claim made to notability. Mangoe (talk) 19:53, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 05:15, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Agricolae (talk) 15:02, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Clear WP:INVALIDBIO, cannot be kept per WP:NOTGENEALOGY, regardless of notability. Presumably no substantial sources, offline or otherwise. Avilich (talk) 20:48, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
redirect to Frederick V, Margrave of Baden-Durlach, her husband. The content is purely genealogical. Such articles are discouraged. Peterkingiron (talk) 17:52, 17 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Frederick V, Margrave of Baden-Durlach. This stub barely has any information in it beyond what is in the husband's page, and the only source given is a genealogy web site. (Some of the other language pages provide a second genealogy web site as a source!) If/when reliable secondary sources are found, this article could easily be recreated as a standalone without having "lost" anything in the process of deletion without merging. (If anyone really likes her portrait, they could crop it from a higher-resolution version of the painting with all her siblings, and add it to her husband Frederick's page separately.) I think the reason it "feels" like a keeper is because there were other Barbaras who clearly were notable, such as everyone listed on the DAB page Barbara of Brandenburg (including Barbara of Brandenburg, Marquise of Mantua aka Barbara Gonzaga). This Barbara is not them. Cielquiparle (talk) 09:45, 20 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. She was the margravine of a sovereign state. Discussion of Barbara in: Gerhard Raff: Hie gut Wirtemberg allewege. Band 2: Das Haus Württemberg von Herzog Friedrich I. bis Herzog Eberhard III. Mit den Linien Stuttgart, Mömpelgard, Weiltingen, Neuenstadt am Kocher, Neuenbürg und Oels in Schlesien. 4. Auflage. Landhege, Schwaigern 2014, ISBN 978-3-943066-12-8, pp. 282–292. Shorter discussions in Johannes Ehmann, Geschichte der Evangelischen Kirche in Baden: Band 2: Die Kirche der Markgrafschaft 2021 pp. 336 & 364. Furius (talk) 15:33, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Volume 2 of the first Raff book was self-published but maybe the Ehmann book is more promising for notability purposes? Cielquiparle (talk) 19:15, 22 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

WP:SPS "Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established subject-matter expert, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications." I think this is the kind of situation that that sentence has in mind, since and the first and third volumes of Hie gut Wirtemberg allewege were published in RS, independent publications. Furius (talk) 14:50, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:24, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep without prejudice to merge/redirect. Andrevan@ 19:57, 23 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per sources found by User:Furius and expanded. She was the margravine of a sovereign state. The margravine is a part of queen faction. Taung Tan (talk) 21:37, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comment if the first source is self-published, the only one that can count towards notability is the second one, which means that WP:BASIC still isn't met since multiple reliable sources are required. The recent expansion still doesn't establish notability: the coverage focuses on her husband, and most sources are self-published or primary. Avilich (talk) 02:27, 26 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This article is misnamed and if kept, it needs to be moved to Barbara of Baden-Durlach. I will leave the title as is for now but will start adding what I've found. Cielquiparle (talk) 10:20, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What? Why? She came from Würtemberg. Compare Mary of Teck not Mary of Britain, Barbara of Portugal not Barbara of Spain. Furius (talk) 13:31, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I see that now. It is only one source that I found that refers to her the other way. Cielquiparle (talk) 14:04, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep She was the consort of the ruler of a principality in an age when such rulers wielded real power (not just figureheads) and their marriages were politically significant. There is nearly always a power game at play in such marriages which goes beyond the personal and makes her role notable here. SpinningSpark 15:40, 28 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.