Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Architect (The Matrix) (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was merge to List of minor characters in the Matrix series. (non-admin closure) b uidhe 22:41, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Architect (The Matrix)

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No evidence this fictional character passes WP:NFICTION/GNG. Prior AfD seems to have been improperly speedy closed. In either case, BEFORE does not show any in-depth discussion of this relatively minor character in the franchise, just some in passing comments and plot summaries, mostly limited to some fansites anyway ([1]). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:15, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:15, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:15, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. Toughpigs (talk) 15:43, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to List of minor characters in the Matrix series. I tried to clean it up a little but there are no independent sources to back it up so it's full of OR. Someone in SoCal Area (talk) 21:52, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge as above, no evidence of independent notability, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 22:28, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge - Literally only one sentence is cited by any references. Analog Horror, (Communicate) 00:16, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I haven't had a chance for a deep dive for sources yet, but a cursory search turned up a couple that I think help establish notability, including this, this, this and this. A Google Scholar search turns up a couple potential sources, most of which I unfortunately can't access myself right now. The article as it stands now is in bad shape but it seems like enough sources exist to satisfy WP:GNG and allow for the article to be improved. — Hunter Kahn 02:39, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Hunter Kahn: All the particular sources cited seem to be limited to WP:PLOT-like descriptions, I don't see any in-depth anaysis of this character. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 10:52, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, even that alone would help to establish some measure of notability for the character, but I think it goes a bit beyond that. Some of the books discuss the character in the context of the film's overarching themes about choice, free will, and indepedenent human nature. One talks about how the character emodies Gnostic themes and specifically the concept of the demiurge, and another discusses how he serves as a foil to pseudo-Christian dogma embodied by other characters. But I do wish I could get my hands on the scholarly journals to see what is in those... :/ — Hunter Kahn 14:25, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect - This article fails to establish notability. I don't think the above satisfies the need for significant coverage. The character list for the Matrix could very likely be reformatted and turned into something matching Characters of Carnivale if other articles are merged into it. Anything exploring the minor characters really should be developed from there to start. TTN (talk) 12:15, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree that the Matrix character list could be reformatted along these lines, but despite its FA star, I maintain that Characters of Carnivàle is not the best example to follow. Most of it is in very good shape, but there is enough material on the two lead character that they really need to be extracted into their own articles, with the narrative in the list scaled back to a synopsis and a {{main}} template added linking to the primary articles. Cramming them into this list and giving them 3x more content than any other entry creates unwieldy WP:TOOLONG and WP:UNDUE problems, and is actually a good argument for why individual articles about fictional characters is a good thing. If the Matrix list were to be reformatted, I'd suggest the better model to follow is List of Alien (film series) characters; its entries on major characters like Ellen Ripley, Davis 8, Ash, the Alien itself, etc. are good examples of how the Carnivàle list should be... — Hunter Kahn 14:41, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.