Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Anastasia Avramidou

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. MBisanz ^talk 20:22, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Anastasia Avramidou

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Does not meet WP:GNG notability standards; there is no significant coverage in sources that address the subject directly in detail, and the article is original research based on player statistics from largely a single source, chess-results.com Sasata (talk) 00:48, 8 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete It would be helpful to give some background on her... She is a 12-year old chess player who won the U-12 European Girls Championship. She does not meet the notability requirements for chess players as she is not a Grandmaster. The refs in the article do nothing to establish notability as they are just chess results. The article is horrible written, full of peacock terms and original research, but that means squat when it comes to deleting an article or not. I'm unable to find any independent, reliable refs that are about her except for one story that the Deputy Minister of Culture for sports sent her a congratulations letter. Bgwhite (talk) 05:10, 8 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The article is well-sourced. Even though most of the references are from the same source, that's a reliable source. Also, all the references from other sources that are listed also come from reliable websites (like chessdom.com). Besides the references listed there, there are more available on the web which are not included to the article. Finally, there are far more sources available in the Greek language than the English, which is probably why attempts of non-Greek speaking people to find reliable sources did not go well.

Notability seems like an issue, but this is a chess player who has crushed nearly all opposition in her country with international success too. Not notable enough? It's also rather interesting that none of the other Greek chess players with an article here on Wikipedia has as much information in their article as this article has.

What exactly is a "peacock term", expression which the person above me used?

--Rigas • Talk • Deeds • 13:43, 8 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

See wp:peacock. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 15:05, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 14:49, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 14:49, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. — Frankie (talk) 14:49, 10 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —Tom Morris (talk) 13:11, 15 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Relatively few 12-year-olds warrant articles. It is very possible that she will achieve great things in chess or other fields in the future, but it's too soon now. Looking at Anastasia Avramidou rating card at FIDE, she is currently ranked ~~34th~~ 31st [sorry, got this wrong] in the world for girls under-12 and is untitled. A ranking of ~~34th~~ 31st female in the world would be a good reason for an article if it not age restricted, but U-12 dilutes the importance greatly. In fact nationally she ranks only 4th U-12 in Greece (2nd among active girls). Contrast Awonder Liang, who is three years younger, a FIDE Master rated 150 points higher, and who has defeated a grandmaster in tournament play. Quale (talk) 05:14, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Quayle convinced me with his noting that she is the #34 girl under 12. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 05:47, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I believe I should state that if Cécile Haussernot is considered notable enough, I don't see much reason why Avramidou is not. Before saying that Haussernot is titled and Avramidou is not, keep in mind that Haussernot got her title by winning a European Youth Chess Championship, Avramidou did the same but apparently that achievement no longer awards the WFM title. P.S. She's 31st in Girls U-12 in the world, not 34th. Just a minor correction, doesn't change much. --Rigas • Talk • Deeds • 12:45, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I apologize for getting the ranking wrong; I'm not sure how I made that mistake. If Cécile Haussernot were nominated on AFD I would definitely consider recommending delete, although Haussernot is older, titled, ranked 195 points higher and seems to have achieved a few more tournament successes so far. Quale (talk) 01:24, 17 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It could be a simple typo - 4 is next to 1 on the numeric keypad. Bubba73 ^{You talkin' to me?} 03:08, 17 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Disagreeing with Bubba73 for once. :-) The sourcing here is not the very best, and there is a lot of content on relatively insignificant touranments sourced only to the result list, but Avramidou's victory at the GU12 European Youth Chess Championship has garnered independent attention [1] which pushes me over to the keep column. Sjakkalle (Check!) 05:32, 17 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment As I said above, "I'm unable to find any independent, reliable refs that are about her except for one story that the Deputy Minister of Culture for sports sent her a congratulations letter.". Not sure how one ref about her getting a letter equates to "multiple independent, reliable references" of the GNG. Bgwhite (talk) 05:38, 17 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The congratulation letter isn't really the main issue. Her notable achievement is that she won an international championship tournament, an achievement of such significance that the minister saw it fit to send a congratulations. Counting sources, and finding them online with Google, is a bit fruitless for topics that have Greek proper names. When an international site like Chessdom picks up on a story, I strongly believe that there will be Greek sources as well, but finding Greek language sources with a regular English Google search is very difficult because of the different lettering system. Sjakkalle (Check!) 16:11, 21 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete unless Greek sources can be found. The one article about her is not significant enough coverage in itself to satisfy the WP:GNG. It's possible there are Greek sources that are reliable and independent, but I have doubts based on her ranking and relatively low stature even in Greek youth chess circles. Winning a youth tournament is not enough in itself to meet the criteria; there also has to be significant coverage of her. --Batard0 (talk) 04:42, 24 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.