Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alternative universe (fan fiction)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Modussiccandi (talk) 07:58, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alternative universe (fan fiction)

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The scope of this article is already covered by Parallel universes in fiction. Alternative universes are just a plot devise that can be used to narrate stories and achieve certain purposes; this applies to all types of media and fanfiction is just one of them (if it's not just self-published literature). For each type of alt universe explained here, we can list many examples of works made by the original creators with the same premise. Alternative timelines, that follow canon and then diverge at a specific point? Check "What If...? (TV series)". Familiar characters placed in a whole new setting, such as Batman in the old west or Superman in the middle ages? Check "Elseworlds". Characters trapped inside a fictional story? Read examples in "Trapped in TV Land". Crossovers that mix characters and settings from unrelated publishers into a single story? Check "Superman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man". Material that expands the original story, but gets outdated when new proper sequels arrive? The bane of the Star Wars Expanded Universe. In short, nothing that fanfiction does with alternative universes is truly new or unseen elsewhere, and does not justify a standalone article. Cambalachero (talk) 13:42, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Arts-related deletion discussions. Cambalachero (talk) 13:42, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Discussed as a fanfiction-specific category of writing in academic sources, e.g., Thomas (2011), Samutina (2016), Bahoric and Swaggerty (2015), Finn and McCall (2016), Kustritz (2018), McClellan (2018), etc. There is, it appears, a cultural aspect to inventing a "coffee shop AU" or "soulmate AU" that differs from other ways in which familiar characters have been transplanted to new settings. We wouldn't delete an article on a musical genre just because all its instruments are also played in other genres. XOR'easter (talk) 17:29, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
'Redirect to Fan fiction#Alternative universe (AU), where the topic is already covered. If that page is expanded with sources, I would not oppose a split in the future. Argento Surfer (talk) 12:39, 5 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep. Apart from the six sources listed by XOR'easter, there's also Åström (2010) in Transformative Works and Cultures, Thomas (2006) in the Australian Journal of Language and Literacy, CR Bangun, N Kumaralalita, GFF Sukur (2020) in Aspiration Journal, Doring (2021) in Encyclopedia of Sexuality and Gender, Kowalska 2017 in The Materiality of Love, Larsen (2019) in Studia Theologica - Nordic Journal of Theology, Samutina (2016) in Journal of Media & Cultural Studies, and D Pimenova (2008) in Internet Fictions. If these sources and others, beyond the first page when searching for ""Alternative universe" fan fiction" on Google Scholar this evening, can be added to the page, then it should be kept. Otherwise, it should be redirected to Fan fiction#Alternative universe (AU) as Argento Surfer suggested. Historyday01 (talk) 01:30, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
And which is supposed to be the unique and special thing that makes fanfic alternate universes a different thing from "mainstream" alternate universes? My point is that all those fanfic writers do with the concept, it's equally doable elsewhere by established authors. And XOR, in you analogy alternate universes would not be genres, but instruments. They are plot devises uses to narrate stories, that may belong to several genres. Like the chorus and the solo, concepts in music that can manifest in wildly different songs and genres. Cambalachero (talk) 17:32, 9 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. This is extremely commonly discussed in academic discussions of fanwriting. Another major early source is, I think, Sheenagh Pugh's The Democratic Genre, but I don't have a copy to hand and there doesn't seem to be even a contents listing online. ETA: also commonly known as "alternate universe" and very commonly just "AU", which is impossible to search for, or "A/U", as well as "alternate reality" or "AR", "alternate history", and a dozen different fandom-specific terms. Some more sources from Project Muse (136 hits for "fanfiction" & "alternate"): "‘I’m a God’: The Author and the Writing Fan in Supernatural" in Judith May Fathallah Fanfiction and the Author; Catherine Tosenberger (Summer 2008) "Oh my God, the Fanfiction!" Dumbledore's Outing and the Online Harry Potter Fandom. Children's Literature Association Quarterly Volume 33, Number 2, 200-206; Bronwen Thomas (2011) What Is Fanfiction and Why Are People Saying Such Nice Things about It? Storyworlds: A Journal of Narrative Studies Volume 3: 1-24; Lori Morimoto (Fall 2019) (Trans)Cultural Legibility and Online Yuri!!! on Ice Fandom. Mechademia Volume 12, Number 1, 136-159; "Subverting the Stereotype: Representation in Austen Fanon" in Weinstein, Zoe, Luetkenhaus, Holly Austentatious; much of the book McClellan, Ann K. Sherlock's World: Fan Fiction and the Reimagining of BBC's Sherlock esp. the chapter "OUT OF THIS WORLD: Sherlock’s Alternate Universe Fanfiction"; "Pride and Polyjuice: The Visual Culture of Internet Fandom" in Sarah Glosson Performing Jane: A Cultural History of Jane Austen Fandom; Bettina Soller "Filing off the Serial Numbers: Fanfiction and its Adaptation to the Book Market" in Adaptation in the Age of Media Convergence (Johannes Fehrle and Werner Schäfke, eds); "Seeking Asylum" in Zubernis, Lynn S. and Larsen, Katherine Fangasm: Supernatural Fangirls; Kate McManus "Loading the Canon: Harry Potter and Fanfiction" in A Wizard of Their Age: Critical Essays from the Harry Potter Generation (Cecilia Konchar Farr, ed); "Hannibal Lecter’s Monstrous Return: The Horror of Seriality in Bryan Fuller’s Hannibal" in Nielsen, EJ, Mudan Finn, Kavita Becoming: Genre, Queerness, and Transformation in NBC’s Hannibal; "Hermione Is Black: A Postscript to Harry Potter and the Crisis of Infinite Dark Fantastic Worlds" in Ebony Elizabeth Thomas The Dark Fantastic: Race and the Imagination from Harry Potter to the Hunger Games; Maria Lindgren Leavenworth (January 2015) The Paratext of Fan Fiction. Narrative Volume 23, Number 1, pp. 40-60; Meredith Suzanne Hahn Aquila (2007). Ranma ½ Fan Fiction Writers: New Narrative Themes or the Same Old Story? Mechademia 2: 34-47; Maria Lindgren Leavenworth (2015) Storyworlds: A Journal of Narrative Studies Volume 7, Number 2, pp. 93-110; Josh Stenger "The Datafication of Fandom: Or How I Stopped Watching the DC Arrowverse on The CW and Learned to Mine Fanwork Metadata" in A Fan Studies Primer: Method, Research, Ethics (Rebecca Williams, Paul Booth, eds) [interesting quantitative paper highlighting the high prevalence of works tagged as AU in one fandom]; and lots & lots more. Espresso Addict (talk) 11:47, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Addressing the concern of overlap with mainstream AUs, there are a lot of very well known tropes that are very common in fanfiction and rare or absent in mainstream AUs, eg, fiction where the characters wake up with wings, or gay; where the characters' sexual orientation is different from canon; fiction recasting the characters as animals; AUs of the coffee shop, high school type; the whole soulmate trope; and fix-it fiction that overwrites canonical events disliked by fans. Espresso Addict (talk) 17:18, 11 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to fan fiction. This is really not much different than a regular fan fiction, it doesn't justify having a separate article. Merge there and use the many sources presented above to build a decent information. 182.1.117.171 (talk) 00:07, 12 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.