Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Adam Schuck

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was DELETE. Drmies (talk) 01:10, 8 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Adam Schuck (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Appears to be a non-notable software engineer. I have attempted to find reliable source coverage and the bulk of what I turn up is just social media passing mentions and social media profiles. The most specific article I could find was in PC World Australia [1] where he is mentioned in the article but is not the focus of the article which instead focuses on how Google recruits employees. He is mentioned in passing on a list of several google employees that ended up as Twitter employees in this ZDnet article as well [2]. But once again the article is not focused on him. It focuses on Allon who apparently brought him along to the new company. The other media references I can find are passing quotes like the one in this Register article [3] and this SMH article [4]. Overall he appears to have been a fairly typical software engineer at google, and as a result of that job occasionally had passing mentions/quotes. But he does not appear to rise to the level of notability required for WP:GNG. ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 03:00, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: The rationale says it all.Jasper Deng (talk) 03:18, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment:- Schuck co-founded Google Wave "Adam was the Technical Lead of the Google Wave client, having co-founded Google Wave." ^[1]

- Schuck worked on Google Maps, having co-created Mapplets in 2007 ^[2]

- Schuck received the Google EMG award (2nd highest award given at Google) for work on Google Maps API ^[3]

- [Lars Rasmussen], the software developer who developed [Google Maps], said of Schuck in this video “Adam is the best engineer I’ve ever worked with”.^[4]

- http://www.julpan.com/about.html - Julpan mentions the 5 people out of 12. These 5 are co-founders with Allon. Julpan got acquied by Twitter.

I would like ANOTHER few people to moderate and edit the page of Adam Schuck, other than Jasper Deng or ConcernedVancouverite. It seems Jasper Deng or ConcernedVancouverite are contesting articles which I created just for kicks and it is not nice.

Thank you. Domenico.y — Preceding unsigned comment added by Domenico.y (talk • contribs) 03:54, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak Keep I'm not all that sure about this article. If he was the lead engineer at Google Wave, he'd be notable, and the question is whether the source for that is reliable; sourcing for people in this industry unless exceptionally famous is generally less than we consider ideal in other subjects. Engineers, even in Google, do not get the press attention of, say, professional wrestlers. I usually take exception to AfDs which carry the argument "Just another (whatever)" or "a typical ..." ; I've seen too many where what the person is typical of is a notable person in their field. It's sometimes a way of running down whatever evidence there may be, & can even be seen as denigrating the subject. I doubt that the average Google engineer among the thousands of them has this many sources. (I was asked to comment on my talk p., but I've previously looked at the article so I'd be here in any case). DGG (talk) 04:13, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. — — alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 05:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. — — alf.laylah.wa.laylah (talk) 05:10, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi all,

I have referenced and cited properly.

I had to trawl hard to find that Schuck was one of the co-founding entrepreneurs of "SnappSchool", an educational technology company. Just goes to show that if you delve deep enough...

DGG is correct when they say "Engineers, even in Google, do not get the press attention of, say, professional wrestlers.".

I hope that this is now sufficient evidence to keep this article about Schuck. Domenico.y (talk) 05:34, 25 September 2011 (UTC) Domenico.y[reply]

• Comment - In response to DGG's !vote regarding the Google Wave position - We disagree that a technical lead of a subproduct of a large company automatically makes someone notable - it would still require reliable source coverage. But regardless of that difference of opinion, it does not appear from google's own reporting of the team that he was the head of the subproduct. He was certainly on the team for Google Wave, along with several other engineers, including 3 other engineers who were listed as the 3 "team leaders" as described on this primary source: [5] which also mentions him among a list under the 3 team leaders as one of 3 other engineers working on the subproduct. I would hate to see a Wikipedia article be used to inflate the importance of someone's position. ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 15:56, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment regarding DGG and co-founding Wave - In response to DGG's !vote regarding the Google Wave position: it said on the Julpan site Schuck “co-founded Google Wave”" http://www.julpan.com/about.html. That is fact; it says it on the Julpan site. It is not "inflate the importance of someone's position" by any means.

It says on the website that ConcernedVancouverite found "Lars Rasmussen is a member of Google's technical staff" as well, "and with his brother Jens is co-founder of the Google Wave effort." same as it says on ^[5] "Alex Weinberg, a teacher with Teach For America in New York, started SnappSchool", but it says "6 sleep-deprived entrepreneurs vowed to improve education with technology" http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/04/05/prweb5227204.DTL and says "SnappSchool, as we came to call ourselves, consisted of myself and Alex; two coders", http://theleanstartupmachine.com/2011/07/snappschool-win-nyc-lean-startup-machine-beginning/. So Schuck co-founded the company with 4 or 6 others, depending how you read the articles.

Please do not delete this article, as it re-affirm's Schuck's contribution and co-founding to the technology world.

Domenico.y (talk) 18:16, 25 September 2011 (UTC) Domenico.y[reply]

• keep for the reasons 'Schuck co-founded Google Wave "Adam was the Technical Lead of the Google Wave client, having co-founded Google Wave." http://www.julpan.com/about.html'; Schuck worked on Google Maps, having co-created Mapplets in 2007 http://www.google.com/events/io/2010/speakers.html; Schuck received the Google EMG award (2nd highest award given at Google) for work on Google Maps API Adam Schuck Linkedin Profile, http://www.linkedin.com/in/aschuck; Schuck co-founded "SnappSchool http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/04/05/prweb5227204.DTL; Julpan mentions the 5 people out of 12. These 5 are co-founders with Allon. http://www.julpan.com/about.html Julpan got acquied by Twitter.

. Thank you. Domenico.y (talk) 18:34, 25 September 2011 (UTC) Domenico.y[reply]

Comment - "re-affirm's Schuck's contribution" is not a purpose of Wikipedia. Wikipedia should not be used for promotional purposes such as that. The materials you have cited in your keep !vote are all created by or related to the subject of the article. Someone claiming to have an important position on their own webpage, or a bio webpage of a company that they likely have influence over, does not amount to reliable source coverage when it comes to claims that can not be supported in secondary sources. The only secondary source you have mentioned in your keep !vote is the SF Gate link. But if you look more carefully at that link [6] it is not actually the San Francisco Chronicle. It is a press release from PR Web - not a reliable secondary source. ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 19:02, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I used the wrong word then - apologies for using the wrong word. I instead meant "comments on". Domenico.y (talk) 19:59, 25 September 2011 (UTC) Domenico.y[reply]

Hi Admin,

Thank you for letting me state my case. The article is referenced properly and thoroughly.

1) DGG is correct when they say "Engineers, even in Google, do not get the press attention of, say, professional wrestlers.". It is hard to find references. I researched and found another company which Schuck co-founded, "Snappschool" and that was only after hours and hours of searching last night/early morning.

2) In response to DGG's !vote regarding the Google Wave position: it said on the Julpan site Schuck “co-founded Google Wave”" http://www.julpan.com/about.html. That is fact; it says it on the Julpan site. It is not "inflate the importance of someone's position" by any means.

3)The person who has had the idea is the founder. That person has a "founding team of co-founders" to work on the project.

It says on the website that ConcernedVancouverite found "Lars Rasmussen is a member of Google's technical staff" as well, "and with his brother Jens is co-founder of the Google Wave effort." same as it says on ^[6] "Alex Weinberg, a teacher with Teach For America in New York, started SnappSchool", but it says "6 sleep-deprived entrepreneurs vowed to improve education with technology" http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/04/05/prweb5227204.DTL and says "SnappSchool, as we came to call ourselves, consisted of myself and Alex; two coders", http://theleanstartupmachine.com/2011/07/snappschool-win-nyc-lean-startup-machine-beginning/. So Schuck co-founded the company with 4 or 6 others, depending how you read the articles.

4) Regarding Julpan, it clearly states that "a team of 12" is there, with "5" 'people' in management/featured positions (except what appears to be Dave Landau who I suspect is jokingly refereed to as "Pool Champion").

5) Schuck co-created Mapplets in 2007 http://www.google.com/events/io/2010/speakers.html;

6) Schuck co-founded "SnappSchool" http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/04/05/prweb5227204.DTL

7) I'm having trouble referencing this, as I have seen Schuck's EMG Award with my own eyes: Schuck received the Google EMG award (2nd highest award given at Google) for work on Google Maps API Adam Schuck Linkedin Profile, http://www.linkedin.com/in/aschuck. How do I cite the reference properly?

8) ConcernedVancouverite and Jasper Deng:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Domenico.y "Another editor believes I am believes I am being bullied: [7]" I feel that ConcernedVancouverite and Jasper Deng are bullying me because I am a newbie and English is not my first language. Please assist them to not comment on my posts, as I am trying my hardest to do edit wikipedia articles within the guidelines (I am definitely NOT "Canvassing" and resent ConcernedVancouverite and Jasper Deng's flag on my page that is a black mark for things which they should have given me a warning for) really like to get those articles correct before I move on.

Thank you. Domenico.y (talk) 01:52, 26 September 2011 (UTC) Domenico.y[reply]

• Comment - According to CNN Google Wave was co-founded by Lars and Jens Rasmussen, and they are reported by CNN to be the primary force behind the project. This suggests that Schuck worked on a team lead by others. Article: [8] ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 16:57, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I read the article and it says just that and no co-founders other than Lars and Jens. Thanks for clearing that up. I checked and it is removed out of the article already. I'm not sure if founding Snappschool is a notable achievement, that is just a small addition. Domenico.y (talk) 18:10, 29 September 2011 (UTC) Domenico.y[reply]

• Delete – Having cleaned up the article for several blatant problems with basic guidelines for encyclopedic articles (WP:NN, WP:BIO, WP:SOURCE, WP:BLP, to name a few) notability isn't met at this time. Even the subject's involvement in a startup company or a development team needs to be underpinned by notability. It looks like only Google has it, and that doesn't approach the guidelines: 1) not to be overly cynical, but we only have Google to cite, which is problematic; and 2) we still don't have multiple, reliable, third party sources on the subject. JFHJr (㊟) 03:41, 28 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete doesn't seem to be significant in any field (failing notability)Curb Chain (talk) 18:52, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, causa sui (talk) 17:29, 3 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - promotion of a person of low note. Off2riorob (talk) 15:02, 7 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.