User talk:MichaelQSchmidt/workspace Alan Cabal (New Version)

User milestones Date Process Result July 3, 2008 Articles for deletion Deleted July 6, 2008 Deletion review Endorsed
	A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on July 18, 2008.

71.146.3.121 is Alan Cabal's IP or at least the one that matches the email emanating from him —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stealthepiscopalian (talk • contribs) 09:53, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah like he's really involved in exotic weapons research. I think his child acting consisted of a cameo on the Patty Duke show he won from a radio contest.

What's the dispute? There's nothing on the talk page.

Why is this protected? He wrote it himself. Stealthepiscopalian 11:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC) stealthepiscopalian[reply]

What's with the past tense ("Alan Cabal was an American journalist")? Is he dead? --Anders Püschel (talk) 15:33, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed this line ...Accused of "anti-Semitism" owing to his support of Ernst Zundel, he is completely unapologetic, stating that "Anyone NOT accused of 'anti-Semitism' by now is either a coward or a collaborator with an essentially Nazoid regime." under the WP:BLP guidelines which states ...Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons — whether the material is negative, positive, or just questionable — should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion, from Wikipedia articles, talk pages, user pages, and project space. --VS ^talk 06:19, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• • Comment IMO appropriate refs and copy content regarding above now provided in latest edits by SilkTork.--VS ^talk 23:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• I have removed the latest material that breaches WP:BLP - and which despite providing in-line references, did not upon reading provide direct reference to the quote that Cabal described himself as a "certified Satanist". Please do not return any more of these quotes without direct and absolute references (not including wikipedia references) else I will lock down and protect the article immediately.--VS ^talk 21:18, 25 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good work on the revival. Because there are remains of the edits from the deleted version you need to get an admin to also revive the old history in order to comply with GFDL. SilkTork *^YES! 22:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. A discussion is ongoing over here [1]. I'm hoping for One article, one history, one google listing. Manhattan Samurai (talk) 01:07, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a way to place the initial PROD or speedy delete in the article history template I have above? Manhattan Samurai (talk) 01:09, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

an occultist whose birth name is "cabal." too appropriate, too much of a coincidence. sorta like a kabbalist whose birth name is "ZOHAR." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.206.70 (talk) 21:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's pretty obvious that Cabal wrote this himself. Who else would put thirty four footnotes on an article about an obscure writer? This includes seven footnote references devoted to the pretty well established idea that "Magickal Childe" bookstore was an occult gathering place and that there was an occult renaissance in the '70s. That smacks me as an effort to inflate importance through using footnotes arbitrarily. Because this page is likely self-written, about a living author, and probably a vehicle for self promotion I nominate that this article get deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.101.141.141 (talk) 04:23, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I, and several others, wrote it. Frankly, honestly, Jimmy, it really isn't common knowledge that the "Magickal Childe" bookstore was an occult gathering spot and neither is its importance in the context of the occult renaissance. Maybe to connoisseurs of the occult... which you are potentially one of ? Manhattan Samurai (talk) 12:20, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unreggie, your nomnaination for deleteion is deniedas being groudnless and not in using with the processes for deletion imn place on wikiepdia. Smith Jones (talk) 03:18, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

there are multiple references to his quitting after someone else wrote an article; none explains WHY he quit, or how quitting represented a reaction to the essay by another author. Without explanation, there's no reason to include it, other than SOAPBOXing, self-aggrandizement (I note the subject is an author here), or the inclusion of trivia. Please explain, with sources, or remove. ThuranX (talk) 15:23, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Although at first glance this article appears to be well-referenced, looking at the sources in detail, there doesn't appear to be a single reliable independent source giving anything more than a brief mention of Alan Cabal. Does any significant coverage exist? If not, should we really have an article here?--Michig (talk) 15:43, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This article was deleted last July, deletion was upheld at deletion review, yet here it is. As far as i can make out, it's mostly about some early 1990s BBS shit-war; other than that, he's just written a few articles here and there. It's probably a candidate for speedy unless this version is substantial better than the pre-delete version; in my opinion, this version is much worse. Good luck. Bali ultimate (talk) 15:48, 10 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Moved to talk:

Off and on from 1979 to the early 1990s, Cabal worked at The Magickal Childe in Chelsea, NY, an occult shop founded in the mid-1970s as the Warlock Shop by Herman Slater that went out of business in the late-1990s.^[1][2][3] The Magickal Childe and other occult bookshops in New York City were important gathering spots for the "occult renaissance" that had begun in the 1960s.^[1][4][5][6] Cabal was one of the luminaries of this occultist movement.^[4] He later wrote a short profile on the history of New York City's occult and Magick crowd, spanning from the 1970s up to the 1990s, in a New York Press piece titled "The Doom that Came to Chelsea".^[7]

He was involved with the administration of the "Caliphate" version of Aleister Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis for nearly twenty years. Since 1995, he has been affiliated with the Temple of Set.^[7][4]

Over the years, Cabal has held a variety of jobs. He was formerly a stockbroker and then went on to work for various circuses for over a decade, including shows such as Cirque du Soleil.^[8][9][10] In the mid-1990s Cabal was a member of the New York online community EchoNYC, going by the username "Garbled Uplink", and was also in the employ of Echo, providing technical help over the phones in one capacity;^[11] he was described by Kenneth Li in New York's Daily News as "one of the most feared members of Echo," "ill-tempered", and "known for his fierce online reprimands".^[8][12][13] However, Cabal is merely a minor character in Echo owner and founder Stacy Horn's 1998 book about Echo^[14], and the few mentions of him are not flattering: In a discussion of conference hosts, she refers to "Garbled Uplink, the guy who drinks too much and yells a lot"^[15]; later, she attends a White Courtesy Telephone gig and writes, "I hope Garbled isn't too drunk"^[16]; lastly, in a discussion of one extremely troublesome Echo user, she writes, "Garbled Uplink, the most extreme Echoid, wrote him to suggest that he kill himself. Great. 'Apologize immediately,' I demanded, and [Garbled] did"^[17]. Eventually, Horn threw Cabal off Echo for violating the BBS's terms of use.^{[citation needed]}

His last dalliance with the theatre was in June 1993, when he appeared on stage with controversial artist Ron Athey at New York City's Performance Space 122 in a performance-art piece titled "Martyrs & Saints" involving ritual torture and blood spattered all over the stage.^[18] In the mid-1990s, he was a singer in the band White Courtesy Telephone using his familiar pseudonym Garbled Uplink.^[19][20][9]

Wayne State University Department of English professor Steven Shaviro lists, as one of his favorites, a quote from Cabal's New York Press essay "Best Things About Being a Middle-Aged Guy In New York" (noted by Arts & Letters Daily in 2000 with an 'offense advisory')^[21] in which Cabal stated, Honestly, at this point, all I really care about is novelty and making sure I have ringside seats for whatever awful spectacle is about to unfold.^[22][23]

Cabal resigned from the New York Press on March 3 2005, the day after the newspaper ran a controversial satire by Matt Taibbi titled "The 52 Funniest Things About the Upcoming Death of the Pope."^{[citation needed]}

travb (talk) 20:34, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What did his resigning have to do with the Pope story? This isn't clear in the introduction or later in the article. Can someone clarify? Was he an outraged catholic? What's the significance? ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:15, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

He claims to have resigned for that reason in a blog reply he made on Fast Company. Xasodfuih (talk) 22:16, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I removed it to talk. travb (talk) 00:21, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is the site of a band called White Courtesy Telephone, hosted by Monster Island Records. The following paragraph about Garbled Uplink appears on the site:

Garbled Uplink is a columnist for "High Times" magazine, a roustabout for Cirque de Soleil, a licensed stockbroker, a card-carrying Satanist, and a thorn in the side of the FBI, who've been keeping a fearful eye on him for years. A recovering child actor who made his singing debut onstage with Jimmy Durante and then moved on to "The Patty Duke Show," Garbled fills his songs with a Dadaesque sensibility. In improvised rants and trance-readings that mutate at each live performance, he narrates the jailhouse love song "Prison Wife," the cyberspace travelogue "And Now?", and the explicit murder fantasy "Killing Spree."

Clearly there's some hyperbole here, at least in the FBI part. I don't think constitutes a reliable source. Otherwise the fact that AC is a licensed stockbroker, and a card-carrying Satanist should be added to the wiki article. Xasodfuih (talk) 22:15, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

N.B.: the claim that he was an occultist insn't supported by the source cited, so I replaced it with Satanist. YMMV as to the veracity of it. Xasodfuih (talk) 22:21, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't a reliable nor an independent source. Bands (and their labels) often write complete bullshit about themselves.--Michig (talk) 22:29, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I concur.Bali ultimate (talk) 22:30, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is all self-published/autobiographical. i wish there was a tag for this, but there doesn't seem to be. What to do?Bali ultimate (talk) 23:00, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This generally isn't a problem for date of birth, name of parents and stuff like that. Xasodfuih (talk) 23:43, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure I agree... if the only person who has thought well to put this information out there is the subject himself, then where is the notability?Bali ultimate (talk) 23:49, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Notability does not limit the information that may included in the article (see WP:N#NCONTENT). Xasodfuih (talk) 00:12, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Since this article is facing immanent deletion, I think most all information which cannot be verified, should be moved to the talk page. If we have to stub the entire article, so be it. travb (talk) 00:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This section doesn't appear to be "selected." It consists of every article he's ever written, as far as I can make out. But i can't really tell which article is more notable than any others, with the exception of the zundel article. What to do? Bali ultimate (talk) 23:04, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Alphabetized, after the Zundel article. travb (talk) 00:24, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]