User talk:ErrantX/Archive/2012/April

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I hope this is the right place for this -- I followed links from a Bot Puf notification tag, and here I am. A suggestion, and a question:

• Suggestion -- the notification includes "...please review Commons guidelines...", but does not have a link; suggest adding.
• Question: it also states "Commons does not allow fair use" -- Is that correct, or should it read "does not require"?

If correct, then the sentence seems illogical to me.

~Thanks, ~Eric F 184.76.225.106 (talk) 23:10, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

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Hi, I have been forced by Salvio to go to DR rather than restricting our discussion to Jimbo's talk page. Sorry about this, I would much rather have had informal discussion rather than invoke dramaboards.[1] --Fæ (talk) 12:40, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Fae; you really need to get a thicker skin. And also consider criticism of my community might be valid (I have no idea who else is a member of the LGBT community, and have no interest in knowing) --Errant ^(chat!) 12:50, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

@big song and dance. You misunderstand. I'm talking about making a big song and dance about anything which is perceived as homophobic rather than expressing their sexuality. WP:HOMO in my opinion should be developed to advise editors to stay away from talking about anything LGBT related in a negative light and in turn avoid labelling people "homophobic".♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:36, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Ah, yes, sorry :S In fact ironically I might have fallen into my own criticism there :) Or at the very least it highlights the difficulties, as you say, of discussing these matters. I hope I didn't cause offence in my confusion. Also ironically the word "homo" makes me a bit uncomfortable; that is probably a more negative word than "queer". i.e. if someone in RL was abusing me they are more likely, nowadays, to use the word "homo". Anyway... I think what you suggest is good; the essay should capture the two sides of this - thinking about what you say (whether it be "queer" or "homophobe"), it should reiterate the idea of commenting on content, not editors, as much as possible. And it should set radical new ground in removing the social stigma of valid criticism of LGBT issues. But; that current essay should be deleted for now, the issues are too raw. --Errant ^(chat!) 13:41, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

I think we are expecting the same outcomes. I also would prefer WP:HOMO to be deleted. I have no objection for a seriously written essay that does not start off in the way this one has. It is a shame that we were unable to have a heated debate on Jimbo's page and reach a conclusion, rather than being forced into DR by a member of Oversight who believes it appropriate to make threats to bring the Arbcom hammer down on me. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 13:48, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

Yeah I agree WP:HOMO is inappropriate in terms of a redirect.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:01, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

I think I owe you an apology, Errant: I'm sorry my message to Fae resulted in you being dragged to AN. It was not my intention. So, for that, I apologise. Regards. Salvio ^{Let's talk about it!} 18:05, 8 April 2012 (UTC)

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Hello, The file File:Dr. Diwan Rahul Nanda in Boss's Day Out on NDTV Profit.jpg which ahs been scheduled for speedy deletion is a free content.

The file is from screen shot of personal video of user.

Kindly restore the same.

Regards, Honestme 08:36, 14 April 2012 (UTC)Honestme (talk)

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I have added a lot of new material to this article and I think it should be ok to move into article space. Can you give it the once-over and move it if you think it is ok? The title is protected at the moment. Thanks. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 20:06, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

A process wonk would say "as it was deleted in AFD, and this based on the original, it should go to DRV". But fuck it; in the spirit of experiment lets move it there and see. Thanks for taking on the job. What I will say is that if it causes another disaster I'll take a portion of the blame - but so will you ;) Good work, lets see if it sticks. --Errant ^(chat!) 20:11, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

By the way - I think you've dealt with the LGBT issue very deftly. --Errant ^(chat!) 20:14, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I would say that I will take all the blame, but you did move it, so I'm sure you will get some of it. I'll put a note on the talk page about my contact with the subject. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 20:18, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

Haha, there is *much* correspondence about this article. But if you have "sign off" over the main issues then it probably won't be the headache it was before. I think you've managed this neatly. --Errant ^(chat!) 20:21, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

• How about fuck-it take it to DRV. This was closed with BLP concerns and the AFD was hidden for privacy reasons. Policy is perfectly clear, content removed for BLP reasons may not be restored unless there is a consensus to do this. This means you are required to take this to DRV before restoring the content. Spartaz ^Humbug! 15:36, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps a look at Talk:Stephanie_Adams#April 2012 article recreation would ease your concerns about the BLP issues? Delicious carbuncle (talk) 18:14, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Despite closing the previous AFD I'm not particularly wedded to that outcome if there is new information but none of the 3 separate arguments for inclusion, playmate, shock horror LGBT playmate, and now court case would, in my opinion, stack up to an unequivocal case for inclusion. She is probably notable enough now but only marginally. I dislike consensuses being overturned by administrative fiat just because of, what was it? Oh yes, Fuck it, lets see what happens. The correct process is to provide your draft to DRV and get a consensus on whether it can be restored. That's my beef. I think the community should decide, because it could still go either way and, if we are serious about BLP, we have to apply the provisions about restoring the content. Spartaz ^Humbug! 18:27, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

I am not unwilling to take this to a DRV, but I would prefer the more usual route of an AfD if someone thinks it is needed. If we were serious about BLP, we would probably do a lot of things differently (and some critics of Wikipedia would have to find a new hobby). Delicious carbuncle (talk) 20:14, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

DRV is the correct venue as its content that you want restored. People bring drafts for comment to DRV all the time. Spartaz ^Humbug! 02:28, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

As I was the one who handled the BLP issues and a lot of the work that went into deleting it; tthose issues are resolved --Errant ^(chat!) 21:33, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

• Then you won't object to a discussion will you. Spartaz ^Humbug! 02:28, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
  • Now I'm on a computer again; feel free to take it to DRV if you wish, that would be better than AFD. I left lengthier comments on the talk page - but my stance is that we are big enough and ugle enough to figure it out on the talk page. And DRV risks extra dramaz. --Errant ^(chat!) 08:19, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

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I know its not your job but perhaps you can help.

Have not checked this file in a while. I am a wiki amateur but this is about the only wiki page I maintain. I noticed this deletion. Very curious as to why it was deleted from here: File:Person rokossovsky3.jpg I looked for a discussion on this topic elsewhere but could not find it.

http://ww2db.com/images/person_rokossovsky3.jpg

This photo of Rokossovsky is easily one of the most famous photographs of the second world war, and symbolic of the underlying story of the competition between two of the Red Armies most important commanders of WW2, Georgy Zhukov, and Konstantin Rokossovsky, the first on a white stallion, the second on a black one. It easily qualifies for fair use as significant photo in and of itself -- in much the same way as the photo of the Soviet soldier flying the Red Banner over the Reichstag in Berlin qualifies as a historically important photograph. It entails an important incident where these two famous commanders of the Red Army were both given command of the victory parade in Moscow in 1945.

It reflects Rokossosky's political and military significance as one of the most important military commanders of the second world war, since is shows him being honoured at the Moscow victory parade of 1945 as one of two commanders selected by Joseph Stalin to lead the parade.

The fact the wiki article on the Victory Parade on Red Square is mostly about the story of how these two competitors were given "joint" command, despite their years of competition. That wiki article is a good example of the political and historical significance of this event that is the subject of this photo. It is a photo that captures the culmination of the whole war from the Russian (and Soviet) point of view, including the important personalities of the conflict on the Russian side.

Furthermore it helps tell the story of the article because Konstantine Rokossovsky's life story is heavily bound up in the competition with Zhukov, and this is referred to repeatedly in the article, and no other existing photo really captures that theme.

The rendition of this event has even been made into paintings: http://great-victory1945.ru/marshals_zhukov_and_rokossovsky.jpg as found on this site: http://great-victory1945.ru/victory.htm

Other images of this parade, and incidents relating to it appear all over wiki, but this one is deleted. I don't get it.

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I've reviewed your nomination of Victor Jones (WWII) at DYK, and there's a couple of fairly minor issues to tidy up. Miyagawa (talk) 22:28, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

The reason the perspective is so striking is because, as Rob made clear in his sandbox article, van Gogh was using a perspective frame, although the one he was using at this time was a relatively primitive affair compared to the one he finally had constructed for him. He liked doing perspective views from a height. You can see the same thing in his Landscape With a Carriage and Train eight years later at Auvers, though by that time he had dispensed with his frame..

Thank you for your comments. I happen to be a great nephew of Anton Hirschig, who was lodging with van Gogh at the time of his death, whose article (also translated in the Dutch wiki) I contributed. I did make a number of other van Gogh edits at the same time, but I'm not an expert and I didn't contribute Rob's edits. The name 'Hirschig' is a corruption of Hirsig, the Swiss origin of the family. All Hirsigs ultimately come from Amsoldingen in Switzerland. The current rash of Hirsig 'Rinpoche' socks (but they're not) is just a clan joke.

The present drama stems from my efforts to get Wikipedia's iconisation of Vincent van Gogh's painting At Eternity's Gate as a representation of mental anguish rolled back (the linked article on the painting was largely contributed by Rob). At Eternity's Gate, as its conventional name suggests, is in fact a depiction of a weary and elderly man contemplating his passing. It is an image of mortality, frailty and sanctity, and we have Vincent's own letters to confirm this. An entire 1998 book At Eternity's Gate: The Spiritual Vision of Vincent Van Gogh by Kathleen Powers Erickson is essentially devoted to it. In the 1970 catalogue raisonné, it was given the title Worn Out: At Eternity's Gate. To represent this painting as depicting mental anguish is as egregiously misinformed as representing the Mona Lisa as a portrait of a flirtatious courtesan. It has nothing to do with debates about reinventing an artist's intentions. It is simply plain wrong and van Gogh would have been horrified to see it iconised in this way.

I really have retired from editing Wikipedia. A passing madness.

Flora sends her regards. 80.90.43.128 (talk) 03:22, 1 May 2012 (UTC)