User talk:DBaba/Archive 1

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Dear DBaba, Is it something wrong (with my message?).?? Regards.Must.^{T C} 17:42, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for late response,I didnt aware of your message.(I generally check,"last change" in talk and if there were more than one message, one missed )

Baby! Thx. name Akalp, grandson.

Regards.Must.^{T C} 09:36, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a forum for opinions. It is an encyclopedia, an assemblage of facts, not agendas.

Re Rudy Giuliani and the Twin Towers, I am not necessarily driving at anything.

I am only reporting facts. You probably have noticed the marker, ^{[citation needed]}, that people add for disputable matters. The things that I have presented show an apparent inconsistency on Giuliani's part.

I do not understand what is incoherent about what I have uploaded. It is clear: Giuliani said one thing around September 11, 2001. He has said the opposite thing recently. Thus, this is a textbook, open and shut textbook case of a flip-flop.

This is all that I am getting at. Since 9/11 is the centerpiece of his reputation, I see this matter as most relevant. As my edit is perfectly documented I see no reason to accept its being eliminated. Dogru144 02:54, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

You've happened onto an article on an interesting topic. One of the the earlier editors of the article was the guy profiled here:[1]. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 06:54, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Great article! Just fascinating stuff... Confusing, terrifying, unspeakably bizarre: fascinating. This is X-Files material. I find the whole business so horrifying that I'm even reluctant to speak openly about it here, for fear a troop of malformed inbred Paraguayan skinheads might be dispatched to silence me.[2] Ah, the charm Mr. Woodard exudes through each photograph. This guy is like a magnet drawn to darkness.DBaba 07:31, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Just imagine being his neighbor, or serving on a town council with him.[3][4] It takes all kinds, I guess. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 09:05, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I have answered you on my user page. No hard feelings. --THOTH 01:57, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

It is a fascinating thing indeed, I wrote the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma article and have been working on a Cherokee Identity page for weeks, but it's really hard to finish. To some people Cherokee is something in your genes, but sometimes it's cultural, and other times it's one degree or another of legal. The relationship between government and the various tribes seems to be the key to much of the fighting that goes on. In California, one tribe arbitrarily expelled 1/3 of its members after casino checks rose to $15,000 per per month, a year or so later the remaining tribe members are getting $30,000 a month. That's a ridiculously extreme example, but it's easy to see the influence of the federal cash cow in all sorts of tribal politics. The fighting over who is or is not Cherokee poses tough questions, e.g., if someone is 1/2 Cherokee, out of touch with their cultural traditions, and not a member of a federally-recognized tribe, are they vastly less Cherokee than an equally clueless member of the CN(O) who has 1/256th blood quantum? Can a midwestern Cherokee, whose ancestors were forced to hide their ethnic identities, and who lost most of their culture, become fully Cherokee again by regaining their cultural heritage? And then there are the testy relations between the CN(O) and the UKB. It all gets very ugly! A few months ago I knew little more about it than that it had been the subject of revert wars, but once I started researching I had a hard time taking a break from it.

Now if I could just figure out a way to write an article that showed everything that was going on without OR. Cherokee politics don't exactly get a lot of coverage by major press.

I wish we still had an article on the legal entity, the Cherokee Nation (of Oklahoma), that your edit could refer to, but for some reason that's unclear to me, we don't.

Anyway, welcome to the topic. May you find it interesting, but not so interesting that it uses up all your time. Poindexter Propellerhead 06:16, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I know those theories about identity and history... Doesn't work for me though. Nice user page, I like it. Cheers, --Gokhan 07:16, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

So glad you like it man. I'm endlessly obsessed with Odilon Redon (the latter two works); I'd previously entertained Redon's Cyclops on my user page, until after one too many looks at it I found it disturbingly phallic. Cheers, DBaba 15:09, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Dear Dbaba, I have a problem with the recent version we should not remove 1.5 million since that is most important. But for the casualties you can edit that but for the 1.5 million that should stay since it is most important, thanks. --Vonones 10:59, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I suppose mistaking Sonni for Sunni is quite a serious error! My attention was drawn to the article from a fascinating NYT article... I wonder if you saw it? Cheers,

^^No doubt, lol.. "Sunni" sounds too anglocized, like "sunni boy", lol.. But yea, Songhai was a very important empire and is definitely underrepresented, as was Timbuktu. I've seen that article on another website and may even use it for reference. I've known about this article for some time, my favorite one however, is on the Mali empire. But yea, Songhai is an inspiration to all and definitely an african legacy to be proud of. Cheers!Taharqa 18:57, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

As far as I know, Turkey has no such security concerns. We can possibly find the Turkish Security Council report about the threat assessment. As far as I remember, Greece stopped being a top threat (there were suggestions of disestablishing the 2nd army, the one in the west), and currently the threats are the internal threats like 'irtica' (sharia related), PKK-related and Iraq war-related ones. I don't remember any mention of Armenia, and there are no large army factions close to the Armenian border. The problem is probably that nobody wants to take the first step towards opening the border, as it might seem as concession. Death of Hrant Dink was a good opportunity. Deniz^T_C 01:44, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

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Thanks for that link. The video crashed my computer after the first minute, so I didn't see the whole thing. Fanatics are always a ripe target for satire or parody, though I gather this group is almost more pathetic than menacing. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 16:41, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I didn't remove that image, you are unware of what is reverted... And, you aren't funny either... --SONSAVASCI 03:24, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if you have me confused with someone else, about trying to be "funny". I was just trying to talk to you about the edits you made; to me, they appear to be attempting to obscure the truth... I'm sorry if you feel antagonized or insulted, I'm only trying to work with you... Why have you removed all mention of the glorification of the killer by Turkish authorities? Peace, DBaba 03:29, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Don't bother him. He said me "sick" in Turkish Wikipedia. Teşekkürler, iyi çalışmalar. XD kızılsungur 02:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I am serious. But I am not a soldier or another man with guns. I had just check it. It had no ammo when I used.

If you wanna come here, just call me bro.

Thx

Teşekkürler, iyi çalışmalar. XD kızılsungur 02:55, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I take serious offense at your removal of the Armeniapedia.org link from the Genocide page, simply because Denizz breathed the word "unreliable". Your comment, "per talk page", implied some discussion, some consensus. There was neither, simply one user (in this case a Turk) maligning without any evidence, possibly the largest genocide resource site (certainly top 3) in the world, with references, sources, etc. I ask that you check the site yourself, return the link to the genocide page, and allow MUCH MORE time for discussion and consensus before altering such a sensitive article in the future! --RaffiKojian 17:42, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

I've only been watching the article peripherally because I've been more actively watching/maintaining Ward Churchill. The last series of changes you've made to the Lewy article have been WP editing at its best. I congratulate you on improving tone, expanding content, and overall making the entry read like an encyclopedia rather than an impressionistic essay. Great work! LotLE×talk 22:05, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm glad you approve! I've just become obsessively fascinated with his body of work these last two days! I know he's a controversial figure, but I'm getting a real sense of consistency underlying all his thought; and wow, his chosen subjects are so diverse and fascinating in themselves, from Churchill to the morality (or creative rationalization, or desperate defence) of Vietnam to the persecution of the Romani people. He hardly passes muster as a historian to me at this point because I can see him so well in his work, but he has his own (distinct!) moral fabric which I find very interesting. DBaba 22:18, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

In your co-edit of genocide you removed the links to some dates, please do do this as it prevents the autoformatting software working its magic. --Philip Baird Shearer 10:40, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I had no idea. I must say, I'm very disappointed in the other changes that you made. I didn't write that text about Helen Fein, I only moved it up; you seem to have removed it altogether, while leaving less reputable sources.

I also wonder about the new section I created, that you removed, about prevention of genocide; is that not a central issue that's being marginalized in the text? The article seems hung up on genocide prosecution, and only in that one hidden paragraph is it suggested that genocide prevention might be a priority. I think the thought deserves its own section, and expansion. Cheers! DBaba 13:12, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

The more I look at it, it's even worse than that. The article really does pretend that genocide is only an international law term, rather than something that appears in every standard dictionary. The Holocaust, so central to popular conceptualization of the term, is hardly mentioned in the text; is it not more central to the concept genocide than the former Yugoslavia? (And can I make edits to this effect without you reverting them?) DBaba 13:52, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I was seriously in a preview of my edit adding the corrections you made to those details about ASALA when you sent that message! I guess I win? DBaba 16:25, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

You accused me once of "hiding the details under the carpet". Actually you are doing it yourself, while I have always been more explicit about every single detail, both regarding the crimes of the Turks, and regarding the crimes of the Armenians. 151.44.150.184 16:29, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

What details? What on earth are you talking about? You want to change that page to state that the Armenian Genocide, common knowledge in every civilized nation in the world, is somehow "debated"? You want to take a marginal detail about airspace and pretend that it's somehow more relevant than the wholesale slaughter of a million people? Can't you see how that's wrong?

The airspace note is mentioned where it belongs in the article. If you would like embellishment in the minorities section, certainly just say so. But why pretend that a Turkish fantasy about historical identity, propagated in the form of a perverse nationalistic cult, somehow challenges a historical record that's been redundantly affirmed by hundreds of scholars from dozens of countries for decades? It's at that point that you disgrace yourself, and it's for me to pick through your silliness to find the actual valid points, which I've already taken it upon myself to do.

Bro, you know, you've got to break out of this archaic mindset of "Armenian crimes" and "Turkish crimes" and understand that criminality isn't transmitted by race or nationality. Everyone in the West already knows that, and they learn it socially rather in any formal educational way. You've got to learn it formally, apparently. Until then, you're in league with the Samasts and Sassounians of the world. DBaba 16:57, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

ASALA killed more people in Turkish Airlines check-ins and offices than outside the Turkish Embassies, might I add. And most of the victims at the Orly Airport in Paris were French, Canadian and American citizens. And the U.S. classifies ASALA as a terrorist organization. After 1984, the Armenians realized that they are damaging their own image with these attacks, and decided to sponsor the PKK for doing the dirty work for them. 151.44.150.184 16:33, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I know the US considers it a terrorist operation. That's why I included that info in the article long ago. Have you even read it at all? And do you realize that the group targeted (and murdered) Armenians as well? DBaba 16:57, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for helping revert vandalized edits in the Bhutto article. As a champion of objectivity, I shall carry out my mission to improve this article for which I have absolutely no desire to do so (and poor ability to spell the name of the woman correctly) because that makes me the perfect person to do it! (and then I'll just bop out when the media bru-ha-ha is over) Please continue to help me watch out for these No-Speaky-English-Praise-Dawn-of-New-Era types. .:DavuMaya:. 06:34, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Heh, yes, I feel much the same way. But hey it's a very interesting topic! It looks like a lot of politicking there too, when I look at how much those allegations of corruption completely dominate the entry. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on it. Cheers, DBaba 16:26, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your kind praise on the Achebe article. I've enjoyed working on it, and I'm looking forward to seeing that FA star in the header. Kudos on having your text used by the wire services – a feather in your cap! Thanks again for your kind feedback. – Scartol · Talk 17:11, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Just a note to let you know that Mr. Achebe is now up for FA consideration. If you have a moment, perhaps you'd care to add your two cents? Cheers. – Scartol · Talk 01:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion – I generally don't like blockquotes here; I think they should be used only when absolutely necessary. If it's okay with you, I'd rather we not add one to the article. But thanks again for your kind support! – Scartol · Talk 04:15, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I really like the picture you suggested – but I don't think it'll work on the Achebe page. (The connection is a little too indirect for it to really link in.) Alas, we'll have to keep looking, methinks. – Scartol · Talk 14:39, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks to you, I learned a new idiom. (it is an idiom, right?) Anyway, my criticism of the section stays. Thanks for the message. Deniz^T_C 22:48, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I have never posted a comment which said directly, or indirectly, that "Armenians are dirty and deserve what they get". I always sign the comments I leave around the net as "Baristarim" which is also my real name, and I do/did get into many discussions around the net or news sites. However if there was a comment which claimed that Armenians were dirty and deserved what they get or that it was good that Armenians died and was signed "baristarim" that wasn't me. Unfortunately, I live in a city dominated by agriculture, husbandry (in other words, cow land) so if the weather is bad and I got no work at the moment I go on the net for huge amounts of time. I don't seek to peruse the net like a zombie, but sometimes I get involved more than I would like. Although you are right that sometimes I should cut down on it, but then you have no idea how much it rains here :)

As for Turkishness. Well, the -ness "thing" is quite common in a number of places due to many historical reasons. Sarkozy of France, for example, regularly uses the term "Frenchness" (I don't want to get into the semantics of it, but the way and the words he uses clearly implies at it). Recently, Gordon Brown came forth with suggestions to further develop a British identity and Britishness. It has been quite common in nation-states lacking a unifying ethnic factor at the time of their establishment. Contrary to what is mentioned, "Turkishness" in Turkey is not dependant on ethnic origin since much of the population is of various and mixed ethnicity (though not as much as the US for example). In the US, "American way of life" would be the corresponding "notion" of "Turkishness", I suppose.

As for Gokalp, I know that he made suggestions back in the day to unify the nation under a common identity. All of this was based on the nation-state philosophy developed after the French Revolution and its corresponding ideals of the Republic and the Nation. However I continue to think that it is very biased to think of Gokalp as some sort of "ideological linchpin of genocide". That's what I was talking about bias in Akçam's book. I really fail to see the connection one can make with ethnic cleansing and advocating a unified identity. I read Gokalp's book when I was younger, and there was nothing in it suggesting that Armenians needed to be killed or "cleansed". In fact, I can remember of no particular mention of the Armenians as a group. I can be mistaken though. Anyways, I don't want to get into a discussion about that though.

I don't see how we could sustain an article called Turkishness, to make a long story short. By the way, no offense taken for earlier comments :) Baristarim 07:03, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.