User talk:Cpetryshyn/Andal

Hey! I have no idea if you can see who is reviewing your article but this is Talia, if you have any further questions about my comments please let me know in class. First of all, I really liked your article, I think it comments well on how she and her acts contributed to the history of feminist thought, and while it was very short I think it was well written. However, I think there is room for improvement. First of all, (and I know you are probably planning on doing this) I think your article could really benefit from you writing more and adding more info about her. I also think it would be beneficial to cite more than one article, as it will really strengthen your point!

Hey! The work that you have done on your article is very valuable and I thoroughly enjoyed it. For your continues work, it would be great to see other perspectives from another source or two. Also, you could expand on how Divine marriage helped Andal to gain autonomy. Did her father's adoption of her make it so that other men in society could not dictate how she could/should exist as God's wife? How does the relationship between agency and piety work? What is the impact – if there is any documentation of it – of having a woman be so religiously revered on post-colonial Indian feminism? Great starting work though; I am excited to see what is next.

Leslyn S (talk) 02:14, 9 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lead evaluation: The lead is concise, however, it lacks the information that you added to it. Content evaluation: I think what you have added is wonderful. It perhaps could be expanded including the spiritual dignity of women, her leadership as the only female Alvar, or the elevation of female gendered roles to the divine. These areas may help you link Andal more firmly in the history of feminism. We also talked in class about the global cross cultural link of mysticism relating to autonomy...potentially linking Andal into some of those narratives could be helpful or starting adding these names under a new section of virginal/bridal feminism. that may be too much of a project, but linking the paradox of power within a culture could be a good start. Tone and balance evaluation: Your approach is very directly feminist, however, I think it is still neutral and evens out within the broader scope of the article. Organization evaluation: Content is clear and effectively communicates your point. I wonder if moving either the Women groups inspired by Andal section or the Feminist Interpretation section to be closer to each other would give a better flow or make the article less disjointed. I'm not such which ordering would best fit the argument that you are trying to make. Images and media evaluation: Some images depicting some of the prose mentioned or literary paintings might be beneficial. The works included do seem sufficient. Overall evaluation: I think the information you added seemed like a good fit in expanding the article. It might be helpful to include it in the intro and making some more links outside of the article itself. Great work with what you added! Alibarnabenelson (talk) 02:44, 9 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A key issue seems to be to set her into a context of bridal mysticism/virginal feminism in general. I can try to help with a few citations to read and use for the Christian tradition of this. Ruether, Rosemary R. “Misogynism and Virginal Feminism in the Fathers of the Church” in Religion and Sexism; images of woman in the Jewish and Christian traditions (New York : Simon and Schuster, 1974). 150-183 – this is the original articulation of the concept For one example of how some scholars of religion have talked about virginity as a strategy for autonomy etc (and therefore effectively as a feminist strategy) see Saints' Lives and Women's Literary Culture, 1150-1300: Virginity and its Authorizations by Jocelyn Wogan-Browne ( https://search.library.ualberta.ca/catalog/5006601 and/or https://www-oxfordscholarship-com.login.ezproxy.library.ualberta.ca/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780198112792.001.0001/acprof-9780198112792). A relatively recent discussion of being the bride of Christ (rather than of a human man, and therefore a virgin): Cooper, Kate. “The bride of Christ, the “male woman”, and the female reader in Late Antiquity.” In The Oxford Handbook of Women and Gender in Medieval Europe, Edited by Bennett, Judith M. and Karras, Ruth Mazo., 529-544. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2013.

Stobbs suggests thinking about other female figures similarly treated in post-colonial India. You should find chapter 4 (on Garbo) and chapter 5 (on Karumariamman) in the following book helpful: Sacred Matters : Material Religion in South Asian Traditions, edited by Tracy Pintchman, and Corinne G. Dempsey, State University of New York Press, 2015. ProQuest Ebook Central, https://ebookcentral.proquest.com/lib/ualberta/detail.action?docID=4396641. There is also a good chance you could find more about Goda Mandali which is mentioned in the current article but not explored. I have myself found many YouTube videos showing mass celebrations of Andal and was struck by how the particiipants seem to be overwhelmingly male, but maybe I was not looking properly. But maybe I was, and that in itself could be significant.

In my lecture, I specifically referred anyone who chose this topic to the works of Vasudha Narayanan (Distinguished Professor, Department of Religion, at the University of Florida). Here is her website which lists her publications: https://religion.ufl.edu/faculty/core/vasudha-narayanan/ She is someone who is completely attuned to the gender dynamics of devotion in Hindu traditions. Looking carefully at the Andal article, I noticed that all the citations to Goda mandali and related issues are to the edited collection Pintchman, Tracy, ed. Women's Lives, Women's Rituals in the Hindu Tradition. New York: Oxford University Press, 2007. Oxford Scholarship Online, 2007. doi: 10.1093/acprof:oso/9780195177060.001.0001. They are to the book in general but then to specific pages inside the book, and those pages correspond to chapter 10, by Narayanan. I think it would be wonderful to get a proper citation onto Wikipedia and to credit the actual author of the relevant chapter. I think you should edit the page to reflect that, but more than that I would suggest that you look at the entire book because I found references to Andal in two additional chapters (just by searching for the name); even articles that don’t explicitly mention Andal address the complex of issues that you should be thinking about. And you could check the many full books of Narayanan that, based on their titles, are generally about Hinduism for discussion of Andal and related issues and people…or even for words like “feminism” and ‘feminist.” But that is just a suggestion/thought. You will really need to think about how to go about this complicated one. It might be the most complicated one of all. Good luck! --FeliceLifshitz (talk) 03:49, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]