User talk:Abo Yemen

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This user will be less active from 4 AM - 9 PM because they are fasting

Hi Abo Yemen! I noticed that you have reverted to restore your preferred version of Masjid al-Haram several times. The impulse to undo an edit you disagree with is understandable, but I wanted to make sure you're aware that the edit warring policy disallows repeated reversions even if they are justifiable.

All editors are expected to discuss content disputes on article talk pages to try to reach consensus. If you are unable to agree at Talk:Masjid al-Haram, please use one of the dispute resolution options to seek input from others. Using this approach instead of reverting can help you avoid getting drawn into an edit war. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:58, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I really didn't want that edit war to happen but his battleground mentality and willingness to attack editors just because of a disagreement shows that they weren't doing this in good faith and were trying to trigger other editors (well, probably just me in the beginning) 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 06:17, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Abo Yemen. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:Geneva Agreement (1967), a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 12:08, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Would you mind checking my edit? I'm not sure that ligature (writing) is the correct target, especially as that article has no relevant content. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:15, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@JMF I am sorry but it's my first time coming across "ligatures". But, if a ligature (from reading the lead section of that article) is two letters merged/connected and make up a single unit then it's probably wrong since ALL letters in Arabic are connected except for a few exceptions 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 12:27, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I was minimally aware of that fact, hence my concern. Can you suggest a more appropriate target article? (Or should I ask at talk:Arabic alphabet?) 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:33, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You could link it to Arabic script for now and ask Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Arab world and hope for an answer 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 12:45, 28 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Can I ask you what the source of the map that you have used in almost every single Arabia-related region is?

This one below:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Najd#/media/File:Map_of_the_regions_of_Arabia.svg

Look at for instance his map of Najd from Britannica?

https://www.britannica.com/place/Najd

The 2 maps of Najd used on the Arabic page are more accurate in my view.

https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%86%D8%AC%D8%AF

Also look at the map of Najdi Arabic (same map used on the Arabic version):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Najdi_Arabic#/media/File:%C3%81rabe_najd%C3%AD.png

What is your view here? Photomenal (talk) 12:49, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Photomenal Najd's borders on the map are consistent with the descriptions by King 1977 and AlOboudi 2015 from the Najd article. Like other maps of Arabia, the Britannica map they made is inaccurate and very out of place (It barely has the city of Riyadh highlighted). The maps from the ar-wiki are, too out of place, and are unsourced. The language map shouldn't be used as a map of the geographic region for self-explanatory reasons.

Also welcome back and Ramadan Mubarak, 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 13:15, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that your map is also unsourced. Najd is also smaller on your map than its historical and current geography. For instance on your map used all of Southern Najd is absent. Places like Wadi ad-Dawasir.

The entire modern-day Riyadh Province is entirely part of Najd. This is not reflected on the current map at all.

Of course not, the language map is just further confirmation that the current map used is too inaccurate when it comes to Najd. As I wrote the entire modern-day Riyadh region is part of Najd and the Arabic spoken is also Najdi Arabic. Photomenal (talk) 13:43, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The map in use is very much sourced and I gave you the sources above (King 1977 and AlOboudi 2015). I might be wrong but isn't wadi ad-Dawasir part of the empty quarter? If not (find a source that says so) then I'll tell goran to fix it.

The entire modern-day Riyadh Province is entirely part of Najd. This is not reflected on the current map at all.
Source?

Of course not, the language map is just further confirmation that the current map used is too inaccurate when it comes to Najd. As I wrote the entire modern-day Riyadh region is part of Najd and the Arabic spoken is also Najdi Arabic.
The Najdi Arabic map's description on Wikimedia Commons has a warning asking for a source. Something is wrong here 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 13:48, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Can you share where in the 2 sources mentioned (King 1977 and AlObouidi 2015) the map that you have included is used?

No, Wadi al-Dawasir is in Najd just like the entire modern-day Riyadh province is.

Here you have a scholarly source that confirms this.

https://brill.com/display/book/9789004502673/BP000016.xml

Not sure who created the map but if it is used on Arabic Wikipedia it is most likely already sourced. If not accurate one would think that it would have been removed. In any case Najdi Arabic is spoken in Riyadh Province.

Ramadan Kareem to you as well. Photomenal (talk) 14:05, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Can you share where in the 2 sources mentioned (King 1977 and AlObouidi 2015) the map that you have included is used?
Read the text no? "It is bounded by the Hejaz region in the west, the Nafud desert in al-Jawf to the North, ad-Dahna Desert in al-Ahsa to the east, and the Empty Quarter to the south."

@Goran tek-en Can you please add [1], [2] and northwestern [3] (the parts that are not in the Empty Quarter) to the Najd region? Thanks

but if it is used on Arabic Wikipedia it is most likely already sourced.
Respectfully, the Arabic Wikipedia is a shithole where anyone can write whatever they want without any sources and it would be fine. I've seen "Good Articles" there with entire sections unsourced 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 14:18, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, that should be helpful and be much more accurate as in the actual size of Najd. As I wrote the entire modern-day Riyadh province should be reflected as Najd on that new map.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riyadh_Province

As is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qassim_Province

and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E1%B8%A4a%27il_Province

This and fixing Northern Arabia/Northern KSA/Southern Iraq/Mesopotamia so this vital part of Arabia will be included in the current map and not omitted completely as currently the case.

What about this linguistic map?

https://www.reddit.com/r/arabs/comments/q49lae/map_of_arabic_dialects_in_the_mashriq/

Another one from Wiki:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Arabic_Varieties_Map-2023.svg Photomenal (talk) 14:32, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Linguistic maps shouldn't be used for geographic regions. People move and take their language along with them. The regions stay where they are. If you find a map of northern Arabia and Mesopotamia that wasn't drawn centuries ago with actual settlement names and not whatever that was in the two maps that you linked below then please send them in the map's talk page and ping me and goran when you do 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 14:39, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Forget the linguistic maps, which are irrelevant in our discussion really. It was more about showing you that modern-day Riyadh, Al-Qassim and Hail province are part of Najd and this is not reflected by the current map that you have included. The linguistic angle was just to show you that even Najdi Arabic is spoken in those regions and that geography.

Point in case here is that the current map is in need of a heavy improvement when it comes to Northern Arabia which is completely omitted.

Basra, Kuwait City, Sakakah or Dumat al-Jandal (ancient city)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dumat_al-Jandal

It was the capital of one of the earliest and largest ancient Arab kingdoms

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qedarites

Can you do it on my behalf or by your own (I assume that you want an improvement of that map as well?) as you are probably much better at doing it correctly than me. Besides I am bedridden (fever and influenza/corona) right now. I would appreciate that a lot. Photomenal (talk) 14:55, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have no problems with adding a "North Arabia" if you can prove a region with that name exists.
Get well soon 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 15:36, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Abo Yemen Draft arabian-18. --always ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 14:56, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Goran tek-en Couldn't have done it any better, thank you.
Can you add the city of Wadi ad-Dawasir and place an approximate label for Mesopotamia in the Map please? 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 15:34, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Abo Yemen Draft arabian-19. --always ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 12:43, 5 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Goran tek-en Thanks, although I think one label for Mesopotamia is enough so we don't cause confusion 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 13:16, 5 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Abo Yemen Was trying to give a feel of its area, Draft arabian-20. --always ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 17:00, 6 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Goran tek-en Thanks! This looks better 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 17:01, 8 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Abo Yemen I have now uploaded a new version but you will have to check the translations. This is due to that I have a Mother file with more information in it than the uploaded version, and now when translations are added to the uploaded file I have to download that and transfer my edits to that file which I also optimize for valid code before upload. So check translation, thanks.  Done --always ping me-- Goran tek-en (talk) 16:54, 9 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! Ill be translating it in a bit 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 08:35, 10 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Also this map of Hejaz was really good at it showed the borders of the Kingdom of Hejaz and the borders of modern-day/historical Hejaz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Hejaz#/media/File:Hejaz-English.jpg

Instead you have used the same map as on the Najd page. I personally think that it would be good to have more than 1 map in particular as the source of this map used is not known and due to those regions in question (Najd, Hejaz and most other regions of Arabia) not having completely defined borders and those borders having changed throughout history.

Also I believe that the map that you have used is problematic because it does not show modern day Northern KSA (a large portion of the Arabian Peninsula) nor even northernmost Arabia peninsula (modern-day Southern Iraq and Jordan). In fact on that map a closely related (on almost every front) place like Iraq/Mesopotamia and actual part of Arabia/Arabian Peninsula is not even shown/described at all! I think this is a big problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Photomenal (talk • contribs) 12:54, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Photomenal The old Hijaz map can be used in the history section where it belongs. The red highlighting on that map is the same as on the current map. It's confusing to use a map of a geographic region and an outdated state in an article about a geographic region.

Regarding northern KSA and Mesopotamia, what is the geographic name of the region to the north? What are its borders? Do you have a specific map of Mesopotamia? If so, I could ask @Goran tek-en, the person who created the map for us from the graphics lab of Commons, to include those regions on the map. 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 13:21, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Northern Arabia.

Here is the geography of the Arabian Peninsula, it extends to Jordan and Southern Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabian_Peninsula#/media/File:Arabian_Peninsula.svg

I don't have any map of Mesopotamia at hand right now but the point is that the map omits a very large part of Arabia proper (Northern Arabia) yet includes Levant? It makes no sense. If you want to use that map in every Arabia-related topic it must have 1 of main regions of Arabia (Northern Arabia) included? Pretty obvious to me, don't you agree with this? Photomenal (talk) 13:48, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't a map of the arabian pensinsula. It is a map of its regions اقاليم شبه الجزيرة. The southern levant is part of the arabian peninsula and, hence, is on the map. "Northern Arabia" isn't a region إقليم of arabia (at least afaik) and if it is and is called "North Arabia" then please find a source that says so we can easily fix the map 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 13:52, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

How is Northern Arabia not a province of Arabia? One of the oldest and best recorded (since ancient times) regions in the world is actually Northern Arabia. I believe some call it Arabia Petraea.

Here you have maps of ancient Arabia from the library of congress.

https://www.loc.gov/item/2021668413/

The point is that the current map used is very inaccurate just for that reason alone (omitting a large area of Arabia) and the Najd map not being accurate (too small).

Roman times map (the 3 divisions)

https://www.the13thenumeration.com/Blog13/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Arabia-Petraea_Felix_Deserta.jpg

Anyway my point is that other maps (at least 1 other map) should be included to show other perspectives. In particular when the current map used has issues as described. Photomenal (talk) 14:18, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You sir are confused. North Arabia is obviously part of the Arabian peninsula (🤯) but isn't highlighted as part of any of the regions for the same reason the Empty Quarter isn't highlighted

Anyway my point is that other maps (at least 1 other map) should be included to show other perspectives. In particular when the current map used has issues as described
You can add the Kingdom of Hijaz map in the history section of the article and not in the lead as it is confusing and has confused other people as you can see in the talk page of that article. Plus the new map shows tihama, something not shown in the previous map 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 14:24, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It makes no sense. Northern Arabia is a key region of Arabia AND the Arabian Peninsula and on the current map used, which you included, it is completely ignored as a region while the Levant (not part of Arabia or the Arabian Peninsula outside of its southern part) is included almost up to the border of modern-day Turkey. On the other hand, as I already wrote, the entire North Arabia is omitted from that map which is very problematic.

Basically ALL of Northern KSA (part of Arabia/Arabian Peninsula) and Southern Iraq is totally omitted on that map. As is Kuwait btw. Where is Basra (one of the largest cities in Arabia)?

Also the map of Hadhramouth, half of its is the Empty Quarter.

Of course no map can be perfect which is why I believe that at least another map should be used, unless that map will not be fixed/improved. If it will be improved and reflect the actual size of Najd and the inclusion of 1/3 of Arabia (Northern Arabia), it is a good map. Photomenal (talk) 14:39, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Nowhere in the map does it say that the entire levant is in the Arabian peninsula? It was included because southern levant is part of Arabia. Tell me where are the exact borders of "North Arabia" and we will add it.
As for Hadhramaut, the source for the map is based on the book “On the Edge of Empire: Hadhramawt, Emigration, and the Indian Ocean, 1880s-1930s” by Linda Boxberger. And Northern Hadhramaut is part of the empty quarter
From the Geography section of the hadhramaut article:
The borders of Hadhramaut have varied over time to include the territory between Aden and Dhofar, but it always included the Wadi Hadhramaut, the lands between the Wadi and the coast, and the desert region of the Empty Quarter north of the Wadi. (Emphasis mine)
The map will be fixed and there is no need for other maps which aren't any accurate than the one we have atm 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 14:51, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I never said that it did, the only think thig I have been writing in this regar is that the Levant is included on the map (even though only the South is part of Arabia/Arabian Peninsula as we both agree with) but actual parts of North Arabia/entire Northern Arabian Peninsula are omitted? This is why the current map is problematic and why it needs to be fixed aside from the map of Najd which is also inaccurate and lacks the inclusion of all 3 modern-day Najdi regions of KSA (Ha'il, Al-Qassim and Riyadh province).

By the same token northern parts of Rub' al-Khali are part of Najd which is not reflected on the current map as the southern part of Riyadh province is missing.

As I wrote earlier, I have no issue with the current map if the problems related to it will be fixed. Once that happens there will be no need to use other maps. Photomenal (talk) 15:03, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

See this 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 15:37, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'm speaking on Saudi maps behalf, he has told me to convey the message to you that the sources for the map are given at his Twitter account Waleed (talk) 14:23, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@M Waleed Tell him to keep his propaganda maps away from the website and to read the community note placed on his post 𐩣𐩫𐩧𐩨 Abo Yemen (𓃵) 14:42, 3 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]