Talk:Ramones/Archive 4

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Genres

I cannot believe pop punk hasn't been added to their genres, most of their music is in fact pop punk. http://www.avclub.com/article/beginners-guide-bouncy-buzz-pop-punk-201853 http://www.rhapsody.com/blog/post/rhapsody-university-pop-punk-101 http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/endofthecentury/legacy.html ~~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Realpunkmusic (talk • contribs) 13:53, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

It is already present in the musical style section. FYI, its common practice to list just 1 or 2 major, core genre in the infobox, and then expand it with other genre in a musical style section later on. See examples like The Smashing Pumpkins, Metallica, Nirvana (band), etc. Sergecross73 msg me 21:02, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Calling the Ramones "pop punk" is like calling Black Sabbath "doom metal". The Ramones' debut is the first punk album (as Sabbath's debut is the first metal album). The Ramones never departed significantly from their original sound. No modifier is needed or is appropriate for the Ramones' genre. True, after punk diversified into hardcore and other forms, other bands who played Ramones style music could be called "pop punk", which became something of a subgenre (again, Sabbath and doom metal is a parallel case). But that genre didn't exist in '76... nor did punk. The Ramones debut brought the latter into existence, and is what they were and were always known as; "pop punk" is revisionist.

Follow up: With respect to the above links, the AV club article actually backs up my point that the Ramones were not "pop punk", but rather its influence (Hell, they influenced plenty of music, including hardcore). The PBS article did not identify the Ramones as belonging to a "genre" known as pop punk (it doesn't acknowledge the existence of any such genre), but merely used the phrase as a descriptor for the Ramones and 2 other bands; this is rather like saying Blue Cheer played loud rock. The Rhapsody piece is merely a blog and not a good source. Keithramone33 (talk) 15:53, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

Hello- I'm an avid Ramones fan and noticed that the logo is not up to date. Meaning, the members in the logo on the page now are not the members that the band ended with. I am advocating the change or update of The Ramones logo on their page to better show who the ending members of the band were, which includes Tommy, Johnny, Joey and DeeDee. Marky left the band due to alcoholism and anger over t-shirt sales in the 80s. This was how the band played their last show. I think it's important to have this logo and not the one that is currently up as it is more accurate as it displays the names of the original members.

Watermelonfree (talk) 19:41, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Can you provide a link to the logo you propose to use? Cullen328 Let's discuss it 19:48, 27 June 2016 (UTC)


Here's an example of the link I'm arguing we change it to: http://www.thelogofactory.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/ramones-logo.png

Watermelonfree (talk) 19:56, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

That is not a good source for a logo since it is a commercial logo design website. The source should be an official band website. I know that the band has not been around for 20 years, but there is still an official website, isn't there? Cullen328 Let's discuss it 00:50, 28 June 2016 (UTC)


Okay- here's from the actual Ramones website. http://www.ramones.com/photos/. The original photo was posted to their Instagram. This is the logo that is acknowledged as the current and most accurate by the band/ Johnny's wife and the their reps. Watermelonfree (talk) 19:04, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Sorry, but the change advocated by user Watermelonfree is complete rubbish. DeeDee, Joey, Johnny, Tommy were the founding members, the ending members were C.Jay, Joey, Johnny, Marky. Marky (Marc Bell) was on a hiatus during the mid-80s due to health problems. The much circulated t-shirt incident is attributed to Richie, his temporary replacement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:8070:21A2:A700:9284:DFF:FEF5:C9F8 (talk) 20:16, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Richie Stern

https://books.google.ca/books?id=dBZlyEn5H1gC&pg=PT47&dq=richie+stern&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjGmcu_3pbXAhVm34MKHWFaDi4Q6AEILjAB#v=onepage&q=richie%20stern&f=false http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6157546/tommy-ramone-legs-mcneil

The article currently says that Dee Dee played both guitar and bass in their early history. According to these sources, Dee Dee and Johnny both wanted to play guitar, and their friend Richie Stern was supposed to be the bassist. When it became clear that he could not play bass, Dee Dee became the bassist and Johnny the only guitarist. The current wording implies that Dee Dee played both guitar and bass at the same time. Should this detail be added into the article? --DeathTrain (talk) 10:46, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

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Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Ramones. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

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Genre

Newsflash! The Ramones were a punk rock band. There was a discussion on this talk page about adding "pop punk", I rebutted the editor, was never refuted, and suddenly the talk history is deleted and phantom genres have been added. Basically, although other bands playing Ramones-style punk can accurately be labeled pop-punk, it is inane to label the band who put out the first punk rock album (and never significantly modified their sound) as such. They pretty much created punk. The modifier "Pop" punk suggests punk was already a thing, and the Ramones played a more "pop" oriented version of it. They didn't, they defined punk. Calling the Ramones "pop punk" is like calling Black Sabbath "doom metal" or callintg the Beatles "Britpop". Show me your sources! The ones that were on the old talk page I've already debunked, and was never rebutted. And "Power Pop"? Give me a fuckin' break :) Keithramone33 (talk) 23:13, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Talk page history is always available by clicking the tab at the top of the page. The earlier discussion was not deleted, it was archived and is available by searching the archives linked in the box above. - SummerPhDv2.0 23:59, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
I understand that, but it was removed from current discussions, and the points that it established were ignored (ie- "pop punk" and "power pop" were added... and RESTORED after this last post! Despite never being addressed.) What is the justification, from credible sources, for saying the Ramones' music belongs to those genres? Tell me that, before restoring them again.Keithramone33 (talk) 11:42, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
They indicate the sources in particular here.--Jimi Henderson (talk) 12:01, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
For now I've removed "power pop". The Holmstrom source is fine for the article but not the info box. Holmstrom merely said in an interview "some people considered the Ramones power pop". He didn't identify who thjose people were... was it fans? musicians? journos? He was not writing that the Ramones were a Power Pop band in an article in his occasional function as a rock journalist. Maybe I'll tackle the stupid pop punk label another time, but as there were multiple links I don't have time to deal with it now. Thanks Henderson for pointing out the sources.Keithramone33 (talk) 12:18, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
The first Ramones album is not poppy enough to be pop punk. It is just bubblegum influenced punk. It wasn't until "Road to Ruin" that the ramones could be described as pop punk as that album had a more bubblegum pop sound to it than previous albums.FreakyBoy (talk) 11:29, 29 August 2019 (UTC)


Richie Ramone

Did his mum write this article? How is he only drummer to be sole composer of a Ramones song? Isn't I wanna be your Boyfriend solely credited to Tommy? The article takes some tyre pumping from Joey at the time and makes Richie out to be the most pivotal band member. Don't get me wrong he's an excellent drummer but the current tone over exaggerates his place in the overall scheme of things. Tigerman2005 (talk) 13:36, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Notice of an RfC about including the word "The" in song/album article titles

Hello there! I started a discussion on the page Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Music on 7 July, and it hasn't received any responses. This RfC concerns the use of the word "The" in band names in parentheses in the titles of articles about songs and albums. Further elaboration can be found on that discussion page. I would appreciate thoughts from anyone who may be interested in the discussion. Thank you. –Matthew - (talk) 20:55, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Appearances

Do you know where there are any shows or movies that the ramones appear? No affence, but there was one in SpongeBob in RandomLand from "SpongeBob SquarePants". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael grutsch (talk • contribs) 21:58, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

Influence - in Polish

One of the most common words for 'leather jacket' in Polish is Ramoneska, from the band's name. Worthy of mention? Malick78 (talk) 22:23, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Sure, if you can find a reliable source for it. Benicio2020 (talk) 21:54, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Concerning "the" in the band name

Concerning the use of "the" in the band's title, there's a misinterpretation of the policy WP:THE, provided by User:ILIL. The policy states "some bands – such as Eurythmics, Eagles, Pixies and Odds – do not have the in their names, even though they may sometimes (or even often) be referred to as "the (Name)" in everyday speech. In all cases, default to the form of the name that is actually used by the band themselves". The cited examples given now in the article consist of interviews with two individual band members in which said members casually refer to the band as "the Ramones" during interviews. My interpretation of what the line "default to the form of the name that is actually used by the band themselves" means is what the band as whole refer to themselves via official releases by the band, their official website, and not what members refer to it in what is referred to in the policy cited, as "everyday speech." The policy specifically states that using "The" "only applies if the definite article is used by the band on their musical publications (CDs, audiotapes, records, etc.) or on their official website." None of the main LPs and EPs use "the." (Yes, some compilations do as do albums by other artists covering the band but these do not outweigh the main official releases.) The band's website, which despite now only featuring their band logo is still official, is ramones.com, NOT theramones.com. In fact, they don't even bother to register theramones.com in order to redirect to the ramones.com.

So it seems obvious in the first sentence that the policy is referring to "the name that is actually used by the band themselves" as what they use on their official releases and not what a member, or even multiple members, say in an interview. The band itself doesn't refer to itself as The Ramones but individual members may and if they do, this doesn't mean it's an official statement on what the band's name is. Referring to the band as "the Ramones" throughout the article, when referring to their actions as band members (ie "the Ramones returned to the studio" or "the Ramones were tired after a long tour" still works and can still be used because your talking about them as a group of individuals using the same pseudonym. The opening statement though should use the official name, per the cited policy, and it shouldn't contradict the article's title from the start. From there, the note explains that the band is often referred to with the definite article which also explains why this very article features frequent references to them as "The Ramones."

Lastly, three of the four band articles cited within WP:THE to support keeping "the" also do NOT use "the" when referring to the band in the first sentence of their articles. NJZombie (talk) 01:52, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

  • This is an encyclopedic article, not an LP sleeve. If they're casually referring to themselves as "the Ramones", then that's simply how the band must be referred to in regular usage, even though the definite article is not officially part of the name. Readers should be able to infer that "The" is not part of the band name by simply reading the article title, the bolded portions of the first sentence, and the footnote itself. If disagreements persists then an RfC should be made. ili (talk) 16:58, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
  • Also, I think you're the one who is misinterpreting WP:THE, as you've conveniently left out the very first sentence of the paragraph: This only applies if the definite article is used by the band on their musical publications (CDs, audiotapes, records, etc.) or on their official website. It clearly distinguishes between musical publications and everyday speech. Thus, "default to the form of the name that is actually used by the band themselves". Not the CDs or records, but the band members. ili (talk) 17:02, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
No, it's clearly you misinterpreting WP:THE and its first sentence. I didn't "conveniently" leave out the first sentence at all. I used it to back up what I'm saying. It's stating that you're only using "The" when the band, not the band members, use the definite article officially on things like albums or their website, which they do not. It's what the band as an entity refers to itself as, not what the band MEMBERS refer to it as.NJZombie (talk) 21:42, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
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