Talk:Execution of Quintin Jones

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Execution of Quintin Jones article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article was nominated for deletion on 21 May 2021. The result of the discussion was keep.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Human rights Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Human rights, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Human rights on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Human rightsWikipedia:WikiProject Human rightsTemplate:WikiProject Human rightsHuman rights articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

United States: Texas Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Texas portal This article is supported by WikiProject Texas (assessed as Low-importance).

Death Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Solitary confinement

None of the sources anywhere near any of the solitary confinement sentences say anything about how long he spent in it. Furthermore, the statement about the UN rules on "torture" requires a secondary source that makes that connection - otherwise, that is WP:SYNTH of ideas and should be removed. Overall, this article is written in a heavily promotional/advocacy-based tone and needs quite a bit of cleanup to comply with policies. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 23:39, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

What's not clear from the article or the sources is why

the execution has been so long delayed
the prisoner has been kept in solitary confinement
the execution has now been scheduled

I suppose that it's mainly because of protracted appeals which have now been exhausted but this doesn't seem to be stated clearly anywhere

Andrew🐉(talk) 13:44, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Andrew Davidson: I've removed the sentence through this edit. --Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 15:26, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Several"

The only news organization that even is listed is one local newspaper. The piece mentioned is an opinion piece written by someone who is not independent of the subject. All references to "several" news organizations "highlighting" racial bias needs to be removed or more sources need to be provided. Furthermore, running an opinion piece that makes claims that are not independently verified by the paper does not make it "highlighting" racial bias in his sentencing. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 23:43, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Still not sure why this is attributed to the Statesman when it's clearly an opinion piece. Also not certain on the notability - still looking into that before I AfD this. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 20:03, 19 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Berchanhimez: At first I'm also not so sure in regards to this problem, but looking at the situation right now it will be better if we suggest an article title move instead of AfD (Quintin Jones -> Execution of Quintin Jones) --Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 05:04, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Should this article exist at all.....?

Three opinion pieces, four remaining sources. I think this article doesn't pass WP:ONEEVENT. --Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 23:57, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. I've think that if this person gets executed we will change it to Death/Execution of Quintin Jones. --Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 00:04, 17 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 20 May 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Withdrawn. osunpokeh (talk) 19:24, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Quintin Jones (prisoner) → Execution of Quintin Jones – It seems that the subject of this biographical entry is clearly WP:1E and relatively minor, so renaming the article to the event (the execution) may be the appropriate choice here. osunpokeh (talk) 09:45, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging @Jeromi Mikhael as he brought it up in the first place. osunpokeh (talk) 09:47, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support The only thing now that makes him notable is his execution, and that's the reason why this article exists in the first place. --Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 10:00, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support Agree with the above. The article is worth keeping under the title Execution of Quintin Jones. Inexpiable (talk) 10:48, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Question Would this mean we the information that is not about his execution will be removed from the article? Is there extra information that could be added that is more context about the work people did to try to get him clemency? John Cummings (talk) 11:31, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't believe so — optimal decision in my opinion is to have a section titled "Biography" or something like that, then follow with another section titled "trial". osunpokeh (talk) 19:19, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Question Are there other titles that would be better description and less dehumanising? It seems the main focus is about people and cases trying to stop the state killing him and the legal process including his trial instead of the actual execution itself. John Cummings (talk) 11:31, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@John Cummings "Conviction and execution of ..." is the only alternative I can think of. This was used for 'Conviction and execution of Steven Michael Woods Jr.', for example. That seems too long, however. Uses x (talk • contribs) 12:39, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Uses x: Hi John Cummings, could you explain how the proposed titles are "dehumanising"? We could think of a better alternative if you elaborate. --Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 13:12, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support I agree that he's primarily only notable for one event, with the advocacy for him being the main reason for his notability. "Execution of ..." is fairly standard practice, and there's not enough information about his personal life to warrant an article in his name, as it is currently. Uses x (talk • contribs) 12:34, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose I agree with Roman Spinner to just rename this article Quintin Jones, just for consistency in naming. Uses x (talk • contribs) 15:11, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. It should be noted that, among the 160 main title headers listed under Category:21st-century executions of American people, only seven use the form "Execution of..." The great majority of those article titles consist solely of the executed person's name. A related nomination is concurrently active at Talk:Quintin Jones#Requested move 20 May 2021. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 13:48, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Jeromi Mikhael @Inexpiable What are your thoughts on this instead? I'd normally agree on "Execution of ...", but if there's precedent to just use names I think it's best to just continue with that. Uses x (talk • contribs) 15:13, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Uses x: Instead of being swayed by statistics, I think we should investigate as to why the 152 articles did not include "Death/Execution" as their first word and why eight do. --Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 15:15, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know I mean Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. You could argue the execution of Lisa Montgomery was more notable than the crime she was convicted of: Murder of Bobbie Jo Stinnett, but that is the page title Wikipedia has chosen to go with. We could be here all year going over every one of those articles: why are some pages titled (prisoner), (criminal), (murderer), etc. it kind of never ends. I don't think other page names should be relevant to this particular discussion and we should just focus on this article alone. His execution is primarily what he is going to be best known for, and you'll probably find as executions continue, if they are notable enough to have an article, then that is the new page title these types of articles will be named. Inexpiable (talk) 15:24, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think the execution is notable enough to have it's own article and be titled with that name, there are other interesting things about this particular execution worth noting such as this was the first execution not to feature any media witness out of all 571 carried out in Texas since 1976, also the longest break in a state execution (not just in Texas) in several decades. The crime Jones was convicted of is not all that notable so I think the focus on the execution is the main point of notability here which is why I support the page being titled "Execution of Quintin Jones". So I stand by my earlier support comment. Inexpiable (talk) 15:30, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding statistics, we can also glance at the 286 entries under Category:20th-century executions of American people, the 113 entries under Category:19th-century executions of American people, the 20 entries under Category:18th-century executions of American people and the 32 entries under Category:17th-century executions of American people, only one of which (the 1642 Execution of George Spencer) appears to carry the main title header "Execution of..." —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 15:46, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comment / Question – I may be missing something here. I don't think that the individual (Jones) is notable. But, I also don't find his crime/execution to be particularly notable, either. Seems like just another "dime a dozen" murderer on death row who got executed in Texas. How is he / his crime / his execution notable at all? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 16:00, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If there is doubt regarding subject's notability, rather than the form of this entry's main title header, then that would need to be voted upon at WP:AfD. Of course, there will be always arguments such as the above-mentioned Wikipedia:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, reminding us that this case has received substantial publicity — more publicity than many of the 160 cases under Category:21st-century executions of American people or the 286 cases under Category:20th-century executions of American people, but each case can be judged on its own merits and consensus will prevail. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 16:48, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Withdrawn as per @Roman Spinner osunpokeh (talk) 19:20, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Mugshot

We need to add a mugshot. Article for another executed this year, Dustin Higgs, has a mugshot, so should this article have a mugshot. Someone please add, I tried, and failed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2pacizalive (talk • contribs) 10:20, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The reason Higgs has a mugshot is because it was a work of the United States federal government, under copyright law, anything created by the US federal government can be used freely. A mugshot of Jones would fall under Texas copyright laws, I don't know therefore if one can be added because the work would be from the TDCJ so it would probably break copyright laws to use a mugshot freely. Any thoughts on this Jeromi Mikhael? Inexpiable (talk) 10:52, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Inexpiable: Thank you for notifying me in regards to this matter; I've added a mugshot to the article. --Regards, Jeromi Mikhael 11:16, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Inexpiable: Someone removed the mugshot. Mugshot from texas death row website can be used freely. Shots where he is on an interview are copyright material by the news agency.

NPOV Template

I've added an NPOV template as per the discussion on In The News: Recent Deaths, as there is concern about advocacy in the article. The obvious things that can be solved are that the section on his crime needs to be expanded, the rationale for his sentence needs to be stated, and the other side of his clemency petition needs to be given. You don't need to believe it, it just needs to be stated. Uses x (talk • contribs) 12:26, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion: At least part of this could be done through quotes. Its clearly not a good idea to repeat assertions which are not backed up by evidence as fact and often disproven in studies e.g the death penalty reduces violent crime. John Cummings (talk) 13:06, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this article is terribly "POV". I was going to make a comment yesterday, about that. But, I didn't have the time to do so. It sounds like it's written by advocates on behalf of Jones and his "cause". It's very POV. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 15:57, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]