Talk:Prime Healthcare Services

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The Wikimedia Foundation's Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see WP:COIRESPONSE. Kgkeane519 (talk · contribs) has been paid by Prime Healthcare Services. Their editing has included contributions to this article. Declaration

Hi there - I just posted a few updates to the prime page again.

I want to confirm why I posted the updates I did: The page does not reflect the company operations; It needs more neutral, business-oriented materials; Other health care companies of comparable size have far more neutral business materials, like the Sutter, HCA and Kaiser wiki pages; the previous edits to my content I have received I believe violate Wiki rules by cutting wholesale instead of line-by-line; and Citations are accurate and concise.

If need be, this dispute should be arbitrated by other more senior Wiki editors. thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cuaom (talk • contribs) 16:42, 12 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• Many of those edits violate Wikipedia:Independent_sources. Press releases and articles written by Prime are only useful for basic facts about the organization. I'm trimming away material that is not supported by third-party sources or otherwise noncontroversial. Feel free to add back if you find reliable sources. -- rsjaffe 🗩 🖉 21:01, 16 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have added the POV template because of a "serious lack of balance" in this article. It is not OK that the only chapter in this article should be a long description of controversies. These can only be discussed alongside other details of the company, such as history, operations, etc. I am adding this warning after I have previously combated deletions of controversies from the Prem Reddy article. Fairness works both ways and more balance is necessary for this article. Unbalanced articles have a bearing on the overall quality of our encyclopedia. gidonb (talk) 16:36, 3 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• It's POV, but not for the reasons you describe. If controversies are the only noteworthy aspect of a subject, then they're going to make up the bulk of the article. The intro, on the other hand, is so biased that I can only assume it was written by PHS or someone paid to manage their online reputation. 167.244.212.246 (talk) 19:41, 2 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Two things I would like to bring up:

1. The first paragraph does not cite the source of the statistics, and the claim that "Prime Healthcare hospitals do not use a diagnosis of malnutrition to increase reimbursement" is cited from "sources at PHS". Proper, verifiable sources need to be cited here...

2. The first sentence of the second paragraph reads, "In addition, the higher than average malnutrition rates at Prime Healthcare hospitals are the result of Prime Healthcare's commitment to providing high quality healthcare for all of its patients for which Prime Healthcare should be applauded rather than criticized." (Emphasis Mine). The italicized portion of the sentence is obviously lacking an impartial tone and should probably just be deleted.

I've added additional POV type tagging and reworded/removed certain phrasing that was evidently bias. More remains however and I'm unsure on what deserves to stay and what should go. Specifically the entire "Response to Recent Criticism" section seems un-like wikipedia, and I believe this information, what information is relevant and reliable, deserves to be folded in to the Recent Criticism section itself. As well, there appears to be frequent references to the Thomson Reuters award, including a secondary citation from 100tophospitals.com, which is run by a company that was previously part of Thomson Reuters, and the relevant data is Thomson Reuters era data. I believe this was used as a way to weasel in a second reference to their award from Thomson Reutuers and one of these two citations of this data deserves to be edited out for redundancy. 76.205.7.244 (talk) 04:35, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This table is a work of OR and is almost entirely sourced to SPS. It belongs on their website, not in Wikipedia, in my view.

Subsidiaries

-- Jytdog (talk) 05:03, 15 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

But isn't a list like that useful in the Wikipedia entry? If I'm looking at a hospital system, I'd like to know which facilities it operates.

-- Rsjaffe (talk) 14:31, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Request history edits be restored. Citations are all third party media and information is relevant to Prime's background and expertise. As currently edited the page is heavily weighted by controversies and nothing else. (Kgkeane519 (talk) 20:18, 30 July 2021 (UTC))[reply]

This section may rely excessively on sources too closely associated with the subject, potentially preventing the article from being verifiable and neutral. Please help improve it by replacing them with more appropriate citations to reliable, independent, third-party sources. (May 2021) (Learn how and when to remove this message)

Prime Healthcare Services began in the early 1980s, when Dr. Prem Reddy founded Desert Valley Medical Group in Victorville, CA; Reddy established Primecare Medical Group in 1992. Desert Valley today stands as the flagship hospital in the California healthcare system known as Prime Healthcare Services. Prime Healthcare hospitals have received awards for quality care over the years but have also attracted scrutiny for their billing practices.

Desert Valley Hospital has been recognized as a Top 100 Hospital in the Nation.^[1]

In 2012, eight of Prime Healthcare Services' hospitals were named among the "100 Top Hospitals" in the nation by Thomson Reuters.^[2]

In 2016, Becker's Hospital Review listed four Prime Healthcare hospitals in a list of 49 hospitals with the lowest rate of serious complications.^[3]

In 2021, several Prime hospitals were named in the "Top 100 Hospitals in the Nation."^[4] Two of Prime Healthcare's Los Angeles County hospitals were named to Becker's 2019 Hospital review list of 100 top community hospitals, San Dimas Community Hospital and Centinela Hospital Medical Center.^[5] In New Jersey, Prime has received credit for saving St. Michael's Medical Center in Newark from bankruptcy and keeping it open; St. Michael's also improved from an "F" to "A" grade in Leapfrog safety scores under Prime.^[6]

Additionally, six Prime Healthcare hospitals, including Sherman Oaks Hospital, were named to the Fortune/IBM Watson Health list of the 100 Top Hospitals in the nation in 2021.^[5] Also in 2021, Providence Medical Center in Kansas City, Kansas, and Saint Mary's Regional Medical Center in Reno, Nevada, were named among the top 5 percent of hospitals in the country by Healthgrades.^[7]

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined.

• What I think should be changed (include citations):

 Not done: The article is good as is. Quetstar (talk) 21:34, 30 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This section may rely excessively on sources too closely associated with the subject, potentially preventing the article from being verifiable and neutral. Please help improve it by replacing them with more appropriate citations to reliable, independent, third-party sources. (May 2021) (Learn how and when to remove this message)

Prime Healthcare Services began in the early 1980s, when Dr. Prem Reddy founded Desert Valley Medical Group in Victorville, CA; Reddy established Primecare Medical Group in 1992. Desert Valley today stands as the flagship hospital in the California healthcare system known as Prime Healthcare Services. Prime Healthcare hospitals have received awards for quality care over the years but have also attracted scrutiny for their billing practices.

Desert Valley Hospital has been recognized as a Top 100 Hospital in the Nation.^[8]

In 2012, eight of Prime Healthcare Services' hospitals were named among the "100 Top Hospitals" in the nation by Thomson Reuters.^[9]

In 2016, Becker's Hospital Review listed four Prime Healthcare hospitals in a list of 49 hospitals with the lowest rate of serious complications.^[10]

In 2021, several Prime hospitals were named in the "Top 100 Hospitals in the Nation."^[11] Two of Prime Healthcare's Los Angeles County hospitals were named to Becker's 2019 Hospital review list of 100 top community hospitals, San Dimas Community Hospital and Centinela Hospital Medical Center.^[5] In New Jersey, Prime has received credit for saving St. Michael's Medical Center in Newark from bankruptcy and keeping it open; St. Michael's also improved from an "F" to "A" grade in Leapfrog safety scores under Prime.^[12]

Additionally, six Prime Healthcare hospitals, including Sherman Oaks Hospital, were named to the Fortune/IBM Watson Health list of the 100 Top Hospitals in the nation in 2021.^[5] Also in 2021, Providence Medical Center in Kansas City, Kansas, and Saint Mary's Regional Medical Center in Reno, Nevada, were named among the top 5 percent of hospitals in the country by Healthgrades.^[13]

• Why it should be changed:

Recently deleted sections result in an unbalanced portrait of Prime. As edited current page lists only DOJ citations; Prime is more than the sum of its citations.

Kgkeane519 (talk) 20:38, 30 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined.

• What I think should be changed (include citations):

• Why it should be changed:

Kgkeane519 (talk) 20:39, 30 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: Reason for this is stated at the beginning of this request. Quetstar (talk) 21:43, 30 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Research (and edits) on California-based health systems led me to Prime Healthcare. Based on readings of neutral materials it doesn't appear this page fully reflects the business dealings of Prime, as others have noted. History shows that wholesale edits were made to page without clear explanations. Contributor conflicts? Edits deleted appear adequately sourced and have been restored. ~~Archie515~~ — Preceding undated comment added 19:16, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

To editor Scope creep: My latest edits ([3]) were to try to expand the article with more information about Prime yet avoid the taint of the paid contributions. Please take a look at it again. I'd like to restore it but don't want to get into an edit war. I'm neutral in this--heck, I'm the one who put some of the legal settlements on the page. My only connection with the subject is that I had a long career in the healthcare business and knew of Prime's history from the perspective of an outside observer. rsjaffe 🗩 🖉 04:01, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have asked for page protection. Don't add them back them. There was consensus to remove the content. It is promotional. scope_creep^Talk 08:01, 20 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The page needs new sourcing. Please unlock so it can be updated appropriately. FYI I have no conflict of interest and am not affiliated with subject in any way. Archie515 (talk) 22:25, 23 November 2021 (UTC)Archie515Archie515 (talk) 22:25, 23 November 2021 (UTC) Archie515 (talk) 22:25, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 22:55, 23 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Archie515: You seem to be trying to add almost the same information from the same hymn sheet as user:Cuaom, in a slightly different format, which would suggest an organised effort. The info is the nature of the business and what it offers, in terms of hospitals, to put a spin on it, for want of a better word. It is promotional in nature, and the consensus formed up at coin, was for its removal. Wikipedia has strict rules regarding advertising that are realised in the Wikipedia Terms of Use. Your more or less, trying to turn the article back into a brochure, what it was before, which breaks the Terms of Use. It is not going back in. scope_creep^Talk 08:35, 24 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]