Talk:Omar (name)

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Why is it used by Spanish-speakers, contrary to other Arabic names? FunkMonk (talk) 19:47, 10 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Muslims controlled Most of Iberian Peninsula for 700 years so they imparted a lot of Arabic names to put things lightly.

If there is a large enough group of people pronouncing Ömer as [øˈmæɾ], there would be some evidence of it online, but I will leave it together with the correct Turkish pronunciation. John Cengiz talk 18:16, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rv. because your English pronunciation isn't even possible. — kwami (talk) 19:18, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well of course it is, in English some people prefer the nearer Arabic pronunciation of oʊˈmər with a shorter "ah" sound before the "r", it is closer to the Arabic pronunciation than oʊˈmɑr. John Cengiz talk 19:27, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The /e/ phoneme is pronounced [æ] before syllable-final /l, r, m, n/ in Turkish, so the correct Turkish pronunciation is [øˈmæɾ]. Detailed information can be found in Turkish phonology#Vowels. — amateur (talk) 13:52, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some examples. — amateur (talk) 13:56, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The /e/ phoneme is mostly pronounced [e] before syllable-final /l, r, m, n/ in Turkish. Turkish isn't like English, they don't use the [ə] sound every time the last vowel is the letter "e", occasionally this happens in Turkish, but far from always.

On listening, nearly all the Ömers on TR Forvo are pronounced as [øˈmeɾ].

You clearly are not an expert if you think Ömer has the sound of [æ] "cat" in it. John Cengiz talk 16:45, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I don't get what you say about the [ə] sound since this sound doesn't exist in Turkish at all.

The [æ] sound does exist in Turkish as an allophone of /e/ before syllable-final /l, m, n, r/ and for another proof, you can compare the Turkish and Uzbek

pronunciations of the word "sen" on Forvo. — amateur (talk) 17:58, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You are quite deluded, and don't seem to be a Turkish speaker. This dialect of Turkish you know, is very uncommon. Şen is pronounced [ˈʃen], and is not [ˈʃæn], which would sound like "shaan", it is wrong.

There is no reference to this dialect, apart from on the Near-open front unrounded vowel page, which you added, with no source.

The only dialectal pronunciation with any merit that you insist on, is Erdoğan, which is often pronounced closer to Ardoğan. John Cengiz talk 18:48, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am a native Turkish speaker, and "sen" is pronounced [sæn], "şen" is pronounced [ʃæn], "gel" is pronounced [ɟæl], "ters" is pronounced [tærs], and so on. This is not a dialectal variation, this is the standard. The only people who pronounce these words with [e] are the second-language speakers of Turkish, who are often told that Turkish is "spoken as it is written". The article here agrees with me, and I don't know how else I can convince you. — amateur (talk) 19:35, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's weird, I don't ever remember hearing [æ] in Turkey from anyone, just [ɛ], and I've been all around the country and was usually speaking Turkish. 'Course, maybe I just didn't notice, but [æ] is such a salient sound I wonder how I could've missed it. — kwami (talk) 21:58, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've listened to the Turkish at Forvo, and sen quite clearly has [ɛ] for both speakers. (The Uzbek vowel is weird, almost an [ɪ], bit of a diphthong to it.) — kwami (talk) 22:00, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure about the exact IPA value of the allophone, it might be [ɛ] ~ [æ], but the point is the fact that it exists, and is different from [e]. For example, the ⟨e⟩ in "Ömer" and the ⟨e⟩ in "Ömer'in" sound completely different, because in the latter ⟨r⟩ is no longer a syllable-final consonant and therefore ⟨e⟩ sounds like [e]. Same for "sen" and "seni".

I still think the allophone is [æ], because the words "sen" and "sən" sound absolutely the same in Turkish and Azeri languages ("seni" and "səni" sound different), and we all know that the IPA value of Azeri ⟨ə⟩ is [æ]. — amateur (talk) 15:10, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

See Talk:Omar#Correct_spelling_of_the_name. Onceinawhile (talk) 08:04, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]