Talk:Fathers' rights movement

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination. Discussions: Not moved, 23 August 2012, from Fathers' rights movement to Fathers' rights, see discussion. Not moved, 13 May 2019, from Fathers' rights movement to Fathers' rights, see discussion.

The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: Dinner, Deborah (2016). "The Divorce Bargain: the Fathers' Rights Movement and Family Inequalities" (PDF). Virginia Law Review. 102 (1): 79–152. ISSN 0042-6601. JSTOR 43923308. Dragiewicz, Molly (2011). Equality with a Vengeance: Men's Rights Groups, Battered Women, and Antifeminist Backlash. Boston, Mass.: Northeastern University Press. ISBN 978-1-55-553738-8. Flood, Michael (2012). "Separated fathers and the 'fathers' rights' movement" (PDF). Journal of Family Studies. 18 (2–3): 235–345. doi:10.5172/jfs.2012.18.2-3.235. ISSN 1322-9400.

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Thread retitled from ""Manosphere" - verification failed".

The first journal is paywalled, but the second book definitely never says "fathers' rights movement" is in the manosphere. It says that about MRM (men's rights movements) and MGTOW (men going their own way) but it appears to me that the fathers' rights movement is wider than any of these and not confined to the manosphere. Elizium23 (talk) 05:36, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Elizium23: I have added quote fields to both citations for the benefit of yourself and others who can't access the sources. Both sources support the claim. GorillaWarfare (talk) 06:07, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GorillaWarfare, OK, it all checks out (of course it would) and I thank you kindly for the willingness to do the ref work to source categories, which is a rare quality around here. Elizium23 (talk) 06:17, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Many members did not have experience in law or politics." - Really? How many members did not have experience in law or politics? Did they not have experience in law, or politics? Did a few have a lot of experience in law, and a little experience in politics? I hope my difficulty with this sentence is apparent. 77.97.36.146 (talk) 01:21, 5 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this was worded unusually; I have re-phrased and removed this from the article. Hope this helps. —AFreshStart (talk) 13:24, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The many citations to sources authored by Stephen Baskerville in the § Main issues section create undue weight. Baskerville himself is described as a fathers' rights advocate, so he is not an independent source on what FRAs believe. His book Taken Into Custody is a polemic, not a work of scholarship. I couldn't find a website for the publisher Cumberland House, but it seems to cater to a conservative popular audience in topics like history, crime, and sports. We should instead look for reliable, independent scholarship to describe any controversial issues. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 03:32, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Parke & Brott (1999) is another poor source for largely similar reasons. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 03:55, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It has been proposed in this section that Fathers' rights movement be renamed and moved to Fathers' rights. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

Fathers' rights movement → Fathers' rights – Difference in lemma between Mothers' rights and Fathers' rights movement is discriminatory. HudecEmil (talk) 12:17, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. The article Mothers' rights is about the rights of mothers. Fathers' rights movement is about an activist movement. Equating the two is comparing apples and oranges. It's not discriminatory to accurately describe topics according to reliable sources, and in any case Wikipedia does not censor contents that some people happen to find objectionable for political reasons. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 16:38, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per User:Sangdeboeuf. If there is literature discussing the rights of fathers apart from the political movement to assert those rights, then there should be a separate article at that title, and the same with mothers' rights. BD2412 T 21:01, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose per Sangdeboeuf, and echo BD2412's comment about a potential separate article. GorillaWarfare (she/her • talk) 22:27, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose but there may be still be a possibilit of a separate fathers' rights article should a Wikipedia editor investigate the jurisprudence and analyze the existence of such rights. We should not conflate the movement with the legal concept. Jorahm (talk) 16:55, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In many places, fathers have more rights than mothers do. It seems unlikely that there is no Wikipedia article describing that phenomenon. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 02:00, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The "notable commentators" section does not explain why commentators identified therein should be deemed notable on this issue, let alone at present. There does not appear to be any consistent or identifiable standard for inclusion, and is not being updated. I suggest that the section be removed. Arllaw (talk) 00:57, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good catch, I agree. Having just glanced at that section, I note that the sources given are two advocacy orgs and a newspaper op-ed. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 05:57, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]