This article is within the scope of WikiProject Caucasia, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.CaucasiaWikipedia:WikiProject CaucasiaTemplate:WikiProject CaucasiaCaucasia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Abkhazia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Abkhazia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AbkhaziaWikipedia:WikiProject AbkhaziaTemplate:WikiProject AbkhaziaAbkhazia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Turkey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Turkey and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TurkeyWikipedia:WikiProject TurkeyTemplate:WikiProject TurkeyTurkey articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iran, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to articles related to Iran on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project where you can contribute to the discussions and help with our open tasks.IranWikipedia:WikiProject IranTemplate:WikiProject IranIran articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Human rights, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Human rights on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Human rightsWikipedia:WikiProject Human rightsTemplate:WikiProject Human rightsHuman rights articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ethnic groups, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles relating to ethnic groups, nationalities, and other cultural identities on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Ethnic groupsWikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groupsTemplate:WikiProject Ethnic groupsEthnic groups articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Discrimination, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Discrimination on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DiscriminationWikipedia:WikiProject DiscriminationTemplate:WikiProject DiscriminationDiscrimination articles
This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale.
The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to Eastern Europe or the Balkans, which has been designated as a contentious topic.
The edit is clearly trying to shift the blame for this even from the Russian empire to the Ottomans. This is NOT the mainstream view, to say the least. This is being done on the basis of a source which is claimed to be “Berger, 2015”. It’s actually something from 1880. By “Adolf Petrovich Berger” who lived between 1826-1888 [2]. Berger was obviously Russian writing to justify Russian imperial policy. This is kind of like if the secretary to King Leopold of Belgium was being used as a source to excuse the atrocities in the Belgian Congo. Regardless of the aptness of that analogy we really shouldn’t be using a 19th century source, especially if we’re using it for fringe non mainstream claims.
And on top of that even this obviously biased 19th century source doesn’t even claim that Ottomans were responsible for the genocide (it kind of can’t, since it’s busy denying that a genocide took place at all). All it says is that Russia fought a war with Ottoman Turkey.
The edit summary also just doesn’t make sense.
This is a bad edit and it’s misinformation which is based on a bad source and doesn’t even manage to accurately reflect that source. Please self revert. Volunteer Marek 17:53, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
1: I have specified the exact date of the source, the date in the short link refers specifically to the modern edition. 2: You most likely have not studied the source, the war between the Turks and Russia does not appear anywhere in the source. 3: The source does not justify or shift the blame for the genocide, the source refers exclusively to the time of migration of Circassians to Turkey, the source is trying to figure out who is responsible for the resettlement of Circassians to Turkey, again confirms that you have not studied the source. ) Dushnilkin (talk) 20:51, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The source is from 1880. 2012 or whatever is just the re-publication date. The guy died in 1888.
I have indeed read the source. The source - as unreliable as it is - does not say that Ottoman Turkey was a perpetrator of this genocide as you’re trying to add to the article. Volunteer Marek 23:08, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I wrote that the date in the short link refers specifically to the specified publication, and not to the work as a whole.
The source claims that the Circassians began to move because of provocations from the Ottoman Empire, which subsequently led to casualties. I can agree that it is not necessary to specify Osman in the infbox, but there must be a mention in the article. Dushnilkin (talk) 08:20, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Your 1880 Russian source also claims of the expulsions that "The most brilliant exploits of our generals and the amazing heroism and selflessness of the troops left nothing but glorious pages in history." What on earth makes you think such a source is remotely WP:RS? DeCausa (talk) 08:52, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
These are mentions of the author in the started, which does not relate to resettlement in any way, please do not take the data out of context, the analysis itself is neutral, such mentions are only at the beginning and at the end Dushnilkin (talk) 17:29, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, many Circassian refugees emigrated to the Ottoman Empire, and perhaps it did not help them enough. But it does not mean that the Ottoman Empire should be blamed for the genocide. Quite the opposite. My very best wishes (talk) 21:48, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, the fact is that the Turks themselves provoked the Circassians to immigrate, while not providing a sufficient level of security for refugees. The Russians wanted to move Circassians in the Kuban. Dushnilkin (talk) 17:27, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]