Talk:Chord-scale system

This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Music theory This article is within the scope of WikiProject Music theory, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of music theory, theory terminology, music theorists, and musical analysis on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Music theoryWikipedia:WikiProject Music theoryTemplate:WikiProject Music theoryMusic theory articles ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Now we're talking 87.69.130.159 (talk) 20:56, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. Hyacinth (talk) 21:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously a thirteenth chord does exist. In what context do you assert that a thirteenth chord with an eleventh "not exist"? Hyacinth (talk) 21:53, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've explained in the edit summary as well as on your talk page, I can extend it further if you would like me to. 87.69.130.159 (talk) 21:55, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

An assertion is not an explanation.
On Wikipedia, an explanation of your personal theorizing and practice does not count as an adequate explanation, no matter how compelling. Hyacinth (talk) 22:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see how the voicing in the picture could be "a garbling" of diatonic thirds, since it is ordered by thirds C-E, E-G, etc. Hyacinth (talk) 23:14, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please don't forcibly put that picture back there, let's not edit war over this. Again, if you don't see how, please ask and I'll explain. This is not the voicing of a 13th chord, it is a hypothetical Δ7⁹¹¹¹³ chord; ♮11 is an avoid note in a major chord because of two reasons: 1) as the only interval that has upwards gravity, it generally shifts the tonal center; 2) generally, a ♭9 interval cannot exist in jazz voicings because it makes them unpleasantly dissonant, except for very specific cases. In a nutshell and for the third time: this chord does not exist. If anything, a 13th chord is built upon a dominant chord, while the chord you are trying to build (albeit erroneously) is a major 13th chord. By the way, as I already explained, a "13" chord consists of 1-3-5-7 with a 13 added to it, while the chord you tried to show contains all the tensions, which are usually specified as well – meaning that, as already mentioned above, the symbol would be CΔ7⁹¹¹¹³ or CΔ9¹¹¹³ (if not for the avoid note, of course). 87.69.130.159 (talk) 23:26, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Edit_war#The_Three_revert_rule. Hyacinth (talk) 23:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Have we reduced to this now? My reverts are based on undisputed knowledge while yours are attempts to complete something based upon the pieces of information you have been gathering for the past several hours (see also WP:SYNTH); therefore, I can claim your reverts to be WP:Vandalism. I think we better off working together and being nice to each other, you seem like an intelligent person and I truly believe we can achieve good results building WP articles as a team instead of this unnecessary bickering. Trust me, I am 100% confident regarding the 13th chord issue. 87.69.130.159 (talk) 23:40, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A thirteenth chord built upon a dominant chord is a dominant thirteenth chord, as the text below the image states. There are other theories and opinions besides yours and the ones you prefer, and on Wikipedia we have to cover those. Hyacinth (talk) 23:37, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It still cannot contain a ♭9 interval between the third and the eleventh. Period.

As for the name – you are correct, the full name is dominant 13, but its common contraction is 13. A chord containing a major seventh will always have "major" in its name: for instance, a C minor triad with a major seventh added to it will be called "C minor major seventh" and written as C–Δ7 or Cm^{maj 7} or CmΔ7 etc. 87.69.130.159 (talk) 23:41, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

His books are about deriving chord scales and patters that are not based on seven note scales, why place it in a different paragraph then? 87.69.130.159 (talk) 23:35, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And the above is what the current text states. Why not place it in a different paragraph? Hyacinth (talk) 23:38, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Since this is a less significant issue, I can let this one go. I really have to get some sleep now. 87.69.130.159 (talk) 23:44, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The use of "soundscape" was inappropriate and you would need to demonstrate that that the other books mentioned, at this point only Aebersold's, only use heptatonic scales. Hyacinth (talk) 23:45, 1 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It [the article] doesn't really explain it for non-experts; I mean, non-jazz musicians, even. Are there more explicit simple ways of laying out the concepts and techniques? Tony (talk) 13:26, 10 July 2009 (UTC) [from User talk:Hyacinth#Chord scale system][reply]

I was thinking the same thing. Ainsleymacdougal (talk) 22:38, 27 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The first edition of George Russells Lydian Chromatic Concept actually dates back to 1953. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.76.182.165 (talk) 13:50, 6 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]