Talk:Bond girl

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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: Lindner, Christoph, ed., The James Bond Phenomenon: A Critical Reader (Manchester University, 2003), chs. 11–12. Neuendorf, Kimberly A.; Gore, Thomas D.; Dalessandro, Amy; Janstova, Patricie; Snyder-Suhy, Sharon (2010-06-01). "Shaken and Stirred: A Content Analysis of Women's Portrayals in James Bond Films". Sex Roles. 62 (11): 747–761. doi:10.1007/s11199-009-9644-2. ISSN 1573-2762. S2CID 9372395. Amis, Kingsley The James Bond Dossier. London: Jonathan Cape, 1965, pp. 54-62

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An anonymous editor keeps adding Rosie Carver (Live and Let Die) and Magda (Octopussy) to the "femme fatale" column in the film table. I don't know where the misunderstanding is arising here but I will attempt to clarify two points:

1. Per the introduction to the section, "femme fatales are taken to be women who attempt to kill Bond".
2. Neither Rosie Carver nor Magda make an attempt on Bond's life.

As such neither character belongs in the column. If you believe they do make an attempt on Bond's life or are implicated in some way please outline the circumstances here under which you think they qualify. Betty Logan (talk) 23:16, 15 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Just my 2 cents -- Rosie Carver tries to lure Bond into an ambush (definitely qualifies as an attempt on his life), and while Magda doesn't try to kill him, she does try to foil his mission (but in fact unwittingly helps it along) by stealing the Faberge egg from him. 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 11:32, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for clarifying that. On that basis I agree that Rosie belongs in the table. As for Magda she doesn't make an attempt or participate in an attempt on Bond's life so doesn't qualify on that basis. The reason there is a hard criteria is that you could make the case for including any number of Bond girls who are complicit in thwarting Bond i.e. Pussy Galore, Tatiana, Vesper etc. Having a clear definition makes it simple to categorize them. Betty Logan (talk) 11:56, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for clarifying the criteria -- on this basis, I agree with your assessment. 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 12:15, 4 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

On second thought, I decided NOT to add Rosie Carver to the femme fatale column -- I haven't actually seen Live and Let Die but only read several plot outlines, and these don't have enough info to decide whether she qualifies under your criteria or not. 2601:646:8E01:7E0B:F88D:DE34:7772:8E5B (talk) 08:27, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It's so long ago that I watched it I can't remember it clearly myself. I recall Bond pulling a gun on her but I can't remember the exact circumstances. Betty Logan (talk) 09:11, 6 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Rosie Carver pulled a gun on Bond, but he thwarted her before she could do anything. So I'd say she maybe qualifies. Scream4man (talk) 18:45, 11 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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PSandboxx 123 has made repeated additions to the table at Bond_girl#Eon_Productions_films, adding the likes of Bonita (Goldfinger), Plenty O'Toole (Diamonds Are Forever), Xenia Onatopp (Goldeneye) and Solange (Casino Royale) to the list of women Bond has had sexual relations with. The criteria in the section introduction clearly states that sexual relations must be alluded to for women to be added to this column. At no point in the aforementioned films is it suggested that Bond sleeps with these women. For example, when Bond and Plenty return to his apartment in Diamonds Are Forever they are accosted and Plenty is thrown out of the window into the swimming pool. In the case of Solange Bond goes back to her house with her but takes off before anything happens. This can be clearly confirmed by watching the films, but a handy infographic here succinctly summarises who Bond has slept with. If PSandboxx 123 insists on adding these names then I would welcome an explanation here as to what he actually regards as "sexual relations" and what exactly was the nature of the sexual encounters he keeps adding to the table. Betty Logan (talk) 18:17, 13 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Madonna appeared in Die Another Day. Isn't she a Bond Girl?

Sheena Easton who sings the theme For You Eyes Only is the only singer ever to appear in the credits of any of the series. Should she be a Bond Girl? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.147.13.196 (talk) 04:30, 16 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Based on the scenes that you've mentioned and their lack of a love (or other special) interest to James Bond, I would say that neither one reach the threshold to be considered a "Bond girl." Pistongrinder (talk) 20:53, 14 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Cladeal832 has added Ling multiple times to the You Only Live Twice entry in the table. Ling is the girl in the pre-credit sequence who flips Bond's bed up up resulting in him being "shot to death". This is an MI6 operation staged to fake Bond's death. Ling is recruited by Moneypenny for the operation. She does not have sex with Bond. She does not try to kill Bond. After Bond's supposed death his colleagues rush in and pronounce him dead. This is made crystal clear in a conversation Bond has with Moneypenny shortly after the credits:

Moneypenny: By the way, how was the girl?

Bond: Which girl?

Moneypenny: The Chinese one we fixed you up with.

Bond: Another five minutes, I would've found out.

Moneypenny: She'll never know what she missed.

Ling is an agent who participates in the staging of the operation. As clearly explained in the introduction to the table, the "femme fatale" column is for women that attempt to kill Bond, so Ling does not belong here. Bond is never in any danger in this scene. It is pretty clear from Bond's conversation with Moneypenny that Ling was recruited by MI6 for the purpose of the operation. Why would MI6 recruit a woman who actually wants to kill Bond and then leave his life in her hands? In fact she saved Bond's life: given how the bed is shot up the assassins used live rounds, so if she hadn't flipped the bed up Bond would have been killed for real. Betty Logan (talk) 07:22, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Seem to be making a bunch of assumption from just we fixed you up with and none of your interpretations are explicit to the movie and I can refute your points, but seems so far you won't be differing to me. I wasn't only off my personal interpretations and just going off an outside source to cite.[1] Cladeal832 (talk) 08:24, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can tell that source just relays what happens on screen and does not analyze the scene in any great depth. The dialogue with Moneypenny clearly indicates that MI6 recruited Ling in some capacity, and I am pretty sure Moneypenny isn't running a dating agency on the side. Are MI6 usually in the habit of recruiting operatives to kill their agents? If she were a double agent secretly planning to double-cross and kill Bond how would they know what she was planning to do? Bond's survival is entirely dependent on knowing how Ling will orchestrate his murder, which is explained later when it is revealed that MI6 recruited her. By closing the bed she saved his life, because if she had left it down he would have had no protection. There is no way MI6 or Bond could anticipate that unless Ling was in on it. Betty Logan (talk) 09:05, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. It is obvious that the opening of the film was an MI6 operation to fake Bond's death and that Ling was part of that operation. So she is not a "femme fatale" and doesn't belong in that column. According to the James Bond Wiki, she works for the Secret Intelligence Service (which is another name for MI6) and as an Ally of Bond. https://jamesbond.fandom.com/wiki/Ling However, I don't agree that it can be conclusively stated that she does not have sex with Bond based on the dialogue with Moneypenny. Bond lied to Moneypenny all the time about his affairs, so him telling her that he didn't have sex with Ling cannot be considered 100% accurate. It should be noted that the Bond Wiki also lists Ling as a 'Bond Girl'. SonOfThornhill (talk) 13:32, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I also thought she could go under sexual partners column. I think it's not as obvious as you guys are making it out to be and there can be more ambiguity. Cladeal832 (talk) 18:42, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There is always ambiguity when something is not shown on screen. This blog has a list of all the girls he has slept with and does not include her.AskMen goes further by omitting her from their count, and even stating she is often miscounted. I am not being funny here chaps, but the general view is that the whole thing with Ling is staged. All of Bond's sexual encounters are implied since we never actually see anything on screen, but the implication seems to go the other way with Ling. Betty Logan (talk) 19:13, 13 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 12 January 2022 and 6 April 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jgodfreyy (article contribs).