Talk:Awan (tribe)

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Awans are 100% Indo-Europeans

In recent times, there have been several large scale DNA tests of various Pakistani races/tribes; and I have read some papers that are of quite reliable provenance , that seem to prove that Awans are 100% of Indo-European origins. Mithocondrial DNA testing has shown with over 80% accuracy rates that the Awans are closely related to a number of Rajput and other indigenous South Asian tribes in Northern Punjab and nearby regions . The fact that some tribes converted totally and some partially to Islam at a certain time has nothing to do with the genetic factors. There are several old Hindu tribes that converted entirely and are all Muslims today eg Jhodras, Ghebas, Noons , Arains, Dhond-Abbasis, Karlals, Bambas etc ; whereas there are others that are mostly Muslims in Pakistan area now with some smaller non-Muslim populations in India -such as Tiwanas, Khattars, Tarars and so on. I shall try to dig out the DNA based research articles and share here for everyone's edification. I strongly believe we should all forget about these fake claims (due to our continued complexes about our old /true origins after accepting Islam) and take pride that we are who we are , in fact , and that our elders did accept the truth of Islam centuries ago. (Hamid Ali Awan, Havelian, NW Pakistan)

References

Mārg̲: A Magazine of Architecture and Art, Volumes 1-2

1946, page 32:

"The people of this area are 90 per cent Muslims of the Awan tribe. They are an independent and proud set, claiming unmixed descent from a tribe of Arab invaders."

The above can be included in the main article.

User:RevolutionaryPatriot

Jat Origins Reference from British Gazetteer - not allowed ?

The book reference ultimately refers to a British Gazetteer, which to my understanding are not allowed to be included in the Wikipedia articles.

Khan, Sabir Badal (2013). Two Essays on Baloch History and Folklore: Two Essays on Baloch History and Folklore. Università di Napoli, "l'Orientale". p. 40.

Verbatim:

"Similarly, the Awans, said to be of Jat origin (Attock District Gazetteer 1932: 82), claim Arab origins having descended from Ali, the son-in-law of Prophet Muhammad, from a wife other Fatima...."

[1]https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8N1JCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA40&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false QutbShah (talk) 21:04, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why is it not? RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 05:26, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My understanding is the British Colonial sources are not allowed on Wikipedia, which this book is referring to. Awans are definitely not of Jat origin instead the Colonial author maybe confusing the common term for a farmer, which is also Jat. QutbShah (talk) 21:49, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is not a "Punjabi tribe"

I just noticed that an edit has been made to this article in the opening paragraph where it says that Awan is a "Punjabi tribe" - "originating from Punjab region". There is no proper source to claim anyone of these two claims (there can not be because its not realistically true). The two sources provided do NOT say that the tribe originated from Punjab region or is ethnically from Punjabi group of people. One source say that they were being recruited in British army back in the day when British were recruiting from the Punjab region, there is no mention of the tribe's ethnicity or origin there. The second source is simply a derivative dictionary which can not be used as a primary source (see WP:DICTS).

Awan tribe's affiliation with any ethnolinguistic group of people is not at all defined by reliable historians and those who do affiliate them say they're "people of Arab origin who speak Awankari (distinguished tribal language)", which in itself is extremely broad and vague of a definition.

The article should be restored to previous version where it said that the tribe "resides" predominantly in Punjab, Khyber and Azad Kashmir. That is more correct and better. If there is really a need to mention the ethnicity and origin of the tribe than do mention the correct one which is that "Awan is an Arab tribe, closely related to Sayyids, predominantly living in Punjab, Khyber and Azad Kashmir ... ".[1] --Greentree0 (talk) 18:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC) Greentree0 (talk) 18:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've agreed on this for a while. This is not a sourced addition to have written "Punjabi tribe". It is a known "odd one out" when this is listed alongside Cheema, Arain and Chattha which anyone in the Pakistan topic area would know. There would be plenty sources calling it Arab and the few cherry picked sourced used to try demonstrate it as a "punjabi tribe" just dont support the claim. RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 14:00, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Even cherry picking isn’t possible in this case because no source reliable or unreliable say that tribe “originated”, or is “ethnically”, from Punjab.
With all due respect, what the editor did by adding such a bizarre thing in intro makes it quite evident that editor do not respect Wikipedia and its guidelines :)
- Greentree0 (talk) 11:57, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm able to edit the article. Tell me what you want the body to say and what should be cited. RevolutionaryPatriot (talk) 06:04, 10 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clear the fog

At some point in the article it says that it is a the tribe claiming to be Arab, descended from Qutb Shah, at some it says they might be Jat and at some point it says originating from Punjab (which is extremely bizarre). Why can’t we include the following genetic studies and clear the fog in History and intro section accordingly?

Change from X to Y: There is no section for Genetic studies and there should be a section added for genetic studies.

Genetic studies on Awan

Centre for Human Genetics of Edith Cowan University, Australia, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, Pakistan and Institute of General Genetics of Russian Academy of Science, Russia conducted different genetic studies on Awan and its neighbouring tribes, namely Khattar and Rajput, which concluded that Awans are genetically isolated, endogamous and very different from its neighbouring tribes.[2]

Department of Genetics of Hazara University, Pakistan conducted a dental morphology and DNA analysis of major tribes in Northern Pakistan which recorded that haplogroup T1 (originated in Israel[3][4]) is only found in Awans.[5]

Department of Genetics of Hazara University, Pakistan, Department of Anthropology of University of Alaska Fairbanks, USA and Center for Human Genetics of Hazara University, Pakistan conducted different studies in which hypervariable segment I (HVSI) from mtDNA was analyzed to establish the genetic lineage of the populations living in Northern Pakistan. In the study it was concluded that Awans fall in the same genetic cluster as Arab tribe of Syeds because of their similarity.[6]

A latest study conducted by Zoological Society of Pakistan concluded that Awans are genetically identical to Pashtuns, specifically Daudzai and Khalils sub-tribes of Ghoryakhel tribe.[7] - Greentree0 (talk) 11:49, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Shaw, Alison (2000). Kinship and Continuity: Pakistani Families in Britain. London: Routledge. p. 116. doi:10.4324/9781315080062. ISBN 9058230759.
  2. ^ W. Wang; S. G. Sullivan; S. Ahmed; D. Chandler; L. A. Zhivotovsky; A. H. Bittles (2000). "A genome-based study of consanguinity in three co-resident endogamous Pakistan communities". Annals of Human Genetics. 64 (Pt 1). John Wiley & Sons, Inc.: 41–49. doi:10.1046/j.1469-1809.2000.6410041.x. PMID 11246460. S2CID 21493970. There was a reduction in heterozygosity and high average inbreeding effects (FIS and/or HS), particularly in the Awan, indicating genetic isolation and a high cumulative level of autozygosity.
  3. ^ Lazaridis, Iosif; et al. (2016). "Genomic insights into the origin of farming in the ancient Near East". Nature. 536 (7617): 419–424. Bibcode:2016Natur.536..419L. bioRxiv 10.1101/059311. doi:10.1038/nature19310. PMC 5003663. PMID 27459054.
  4. ^ "Haplogroup T-M184". 9 April 2022. It appears to have originated somewhere around the Eastern Mediterranean Basin, perhaps somewhere between Israel to the Jordan Valley.
  5. ^ Nazia (2014). "GENETIC ANALYSES OF THE MAJOR TRIBES OF ABBOTTABAD AND MANSEHRA DISTRICTS THROUGH DENTAL MORPHOLOGY AND DNA ANALYSES" (PDF). Department of Genetics Hazara University Mansehra: 92.
  6. ^ N. Akbar; H. Ahmad; M.S. Nadeem; B.E. Hemphill; K. Muhammad; W. Ahmad; M. Ilyas (June 24, 2016). "HVSI polymorphism indicates multiple origins of mtDNA in the Hazarewal population of Northern Pakistan" (PDF). Genetics and Molecular Research. 15 (2). doi:10.4238/gmr.15027167. PMID 27420957. Retrieved November 28, 2020. HVSI sequence homology showed that Hazarewal populations fall into three major clusters: Syeds and Awans sorted out into cluster I, ... A three-cytosine deletion (CCC) at position 16191-16193 observed in the ethnic Awan population residing in Mansehra.
  7. ^ Zubair, Muhammad; Ahmad, Habib; Hemphill, Brian E.; Tariq, Muhammad; Shah, Muzaffar (June 2021). "Identification of Genetic Lineage of Peshawar and Nowshera Tribes through Dental Morphology". Pakistan Journal of Zoology. 53 (3). doi:10.17582/journal.pjz/20190927080941. ISSN 0030-9923.

Greentree0 (talk) 11:49, 9 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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