Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting

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view · edit Frequently asked questions This section is here to provide answers to some questions that have been previously discussed on this talk page. Note: This FAQ is only here to let people know that these points have previously been addressed, not to prevent any further discussion of these issues. To view an explanation to the answer, click the [show] link to the right of the question. General concerns and questions Q1: I have an issue with the name of this article. A1: You can post a message on this page about your concern. Please note that renaming of the article will be limited until after some time has passed so that it can be looked at with some retrospect. If you would like to suggest a certain name for the article, then it might be recommended to wait until the renaming process begins. If you would like to make sure that your name hasn't already been suggested, then please first look at the various Archived Talk pages (such as Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting/Archive 1, Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting/Archive 2, Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting/Archive 3 and so on), and the current talk page. Q2: I have an issue about the Bath School disaster being mentioned; I have an issue with the disaster not being mentioned. A2: As with the above question, you can post a message on this page about your concern with the wording of the sentence. If you would like to suggest different wording, then make sure to detail why your change would be an improvement in your post on this talk page. However, it is recommended to check the archive first to see if the specific suggestion to the wording has not already been discussed. Q3: I have an issue about the mother, Nancy Lanza, being mentioned or not being mentioned as a victim of the shooting. A3: Before posting a message, please check the article's various archived talk pages (like Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting/Archive 1, Talk:Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting/Archive 2) and check the Talk page's Archive index along with the current talk page before adding a new section. Discussion has occurred on this matter before, so please make sure that your point hasn't already been covered by past discussion before opening a possibly redundant thread. You can still post a message on this page if your concerns were not answered by past discussion or you believe that there is something that could change consensus on the issue. Q4: I heard there was an NBC News report that said only handguns were used. Why isn't that in the article? A4: This issue emanates from an NBC TODAY Show Pete Williams report early on the morning of December 15th. The information is outdated because at a press conference at 3:30 that afternoon, the Connecticut Chief Medical Examiner stated that casualties were caused by a long gun/rifle, which was later confirmed by various media reports as well as a definitive press release from the Connecticut State Police on January 18, 2013, giving details of the weapons recovered inside the school. In this video from December 15, 2012, Dr. H. Wayne Carver II, the Chief Medical Examiner of Connecticut, is asked about the wounds. At 1:13 he says "All the ones that I know of at this point were caused by the long weapon." The NBC report now carries the following message: "Editor’s note: Later on Dec. 15, officials updated the public on this story. For more details see NBCNews.com/shooting-update." On March 28, 2013, MSNBC, along with other news organizations, published court documents showing that the Bushmaster rifle was the primary weapon used in the school shooting.[1] The NBC report has been discussed before on this talk page and continues to be posted about at Article Feedback. Talk page/Archive3/Bushmaster rifle Talk page/Archive 3/Weapon used was a rifle Talk page/Archive 5/Handguns or Bushmaster? If this information does not answer your questions, you can perform a search of this Talk page's Archives by typing your search term into the white box above and then clicking on the Search Archive button beside it. You can still post a message on this talk page if your concerns were not addressed by past discussions or if you think that there is something that could change consensus on this issue. Q5: I have an issue with Asperger syndrome being mentioned in the article. A5: Various people told investigators and the media that Adam Lanza had received a diagnosis of AS. Medical experts have said that even if he did receive this diagnosis, it would not provide an explanation for the shooting. The article attempts to put this into context. Q6: Why does the article not give a motive for the shooting? A6: Investigators have not made any public comment on what the motive might have been. The media has suggested several possibilities, but they are all speculative at the current time. Q7: I heard [something] about [someone] who supposedly could have some [possible] connection to the crime...why isn't this in the article? A7: Since the shooting occurred, news reports, especially the early ones, have reported on connections that various people might have had with the crime, but those reports have usually turned out to be erroneous and have maligned innocent people. If you have come to this talk page to post a theory that is not supported by multiple up-to-date reliable sources, please note that Wikipedia policies about living persons apply across the entire encyclopedia. Posts that are judged to be against Wikipedia policies will be removed. Q8: I heard that Adam Lanza's death record said that he died the day before the shooting. A8: Numerous blogs have claimed this, but they have all cited a page on www.genealogy.com, which is not a reliable source and has a disclaimer about its accuracy. Unless this is confirmed by mainstream media sources, it will not be added to the article. Q9: Why isn't there a separate article about Adam Lanza or other members of the Lanza family? A9: This issue has been previously discussed at least four times on this talk page as seen in the following Archive pages: Archive 2 at Adam Lanza article? Archive 4 at Separate article for Adam Lanza? Archive 5 at Adam Lanza standalone article? Archive 7 at Separate article for Adam Lanza?. The general editorial consensus of these discussions was that there is not enough notability for an Adam Lanza Wikipedia article to be sustained on its own and that, unless new information from reliable sources is presented, any possible Adam Lanza article would essentially be a WP:CONTENTFORK of this article. Also, this Question/Answer is being posted here in the FAQ to let present and future readers that this matter has been discussed before, not to forestall any further discussion. Q10: I heard Adam Lanza's YouTube channel was discovered. Why isn't it in the article? A10: Despite compelling circumstantial evidence, no reliable sources have reported on Lanza's supposed YouTube channel. As such, any speculation regarding his YouTube activity is original research, which is unsuitable for Wikipedia articles.

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination: speedy keep, 15 December 2012, see discussion. speedy keep, 14 December 2012, see discussion.

A news item involving Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 14 December 2012.

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on December 14, 2015 and December 14, 2022.

This  level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects.

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This article has been mentioned by a media organization: "How does Wikipedia deal with a mass shooting? A frenzied start gives way to a few core editors". Nieman Journalism Lab. December 18, 2012.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report. The week in which this happened: May 22 to 28, 2022

I think Lanza himself is notable enough to merit him having his own page. James Holmes, Seung-Hui Cho, Nikolas Cruz, Stephen Paddock, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, and Eric Harris + Dylan Klebold all have their own articles. I am asking for input before I go and create the page, though. Praiawart (talk) 00:38, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please read the FAQ, specifically Q9. What is new that hasn't been discussed before? Acroterion (talk) 01:02, 17 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think he is notable enough. It will allow us to give him more information without overloading the article. FriendlyNeighborhoodAspie (talk) 23:49, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Re this edit: I did check the source and it looks like twelve games. ♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 19:13, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article is listing video game series. For example, they simply list "Shin Megami Tensei", but he was never found to own the Shin Megami Tensei series' eponymous first entry (which wasn't even released outside of Japan), he owned Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 3 FES (bottom game in the stack on the top left side of this crime scene photo https://imgur.com/WS1ltTJ). The same goes for "Call of Duty" (he just owned Call of Duty 2-4 along with unnumbered sequel "Finest Hour"), "Dynasty Warriors" (he just owned an unspecified PS2 entry (while the eponymous first Dynasty Warriors game was only on PS1) in the series along with some spinoffs), etc. However, for some reason, the article lists "Vice City", referring to "Grand Theft Auto: Vice City", even though it already separately lists "Grand Theft Auto". He was never found to own the Grand Theft Auto series' eponymous first entry, but he was found the own Grand Theft Auto III, IV, San Andreas, and of course Vice City, so they were already referring to the series. Therefore, I find it less redundant for this page to just list the eleven clearly represented series in that article and ignore the Vice City discrepancy. PizzaStallion (talk) 20:08, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the problem seems to be the Vice City discrepancy. The source gives the list of games as: “Grand Theft Auto”

“Shin Megami Tensei” “Dynasty Warriors” “Vice City” “Team Fortress” “Doom” “Left for Dead” “Metal Gear Solid” “Dead Rising” “Half Life” “Battlefield” “Call of Duty”
This may involve counting Grand Theft Auto twice, although strictly speaking Grand Theft Auto (1997) and Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (2002) are separate games. I've stuck to what the Final Report says, although it may be inaccurate according to the video game purists.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 20:38, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying (the "although it may be inaccurate according to the video game purists" part made it seem to me like you were about to disregard the technicalities I pointed out), but I agree with your subsequent edit. PizzaStallion (talk) 20:49, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One of the problems is that the interpretation of the photo here seems to involve some degree of original research. However, I removed the exact number of video games/game series from the article as it isn't a key issue.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 20:59, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah. Unfortunately, most aspects of Adam are either unreported by the media or reported horribly and even some FBI reports are bad (none of them even specify which Shin Megami Tensei game he had. It gives a completely different idea because Persona 3 hardly even counts as a Shin Megami Tensei game, it’s a spinoff at best and the Japanese title didn’t include SMT in its name), so it’s hard for a Wikipedia page to accurately depict him. PizzaStallion (talk) 22:23, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I added some new videos to the page. Could any of them be used in the article? Trade (talk) 03:18, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following content has been removed and restored and removed and restored several times:

When police interviewed survivors, a teacher recalled hearing Lanza curse several times, as well as telling them to, "Look at me!", "Come over here!", and "Look at them!"<ref name="Michael P. Mayko and John Pirro" />

which resolves to the following:

<ref name="Michael P. Mayko and John Pirro">{{cite web|first1=Michael P.|last1=Mayko|first2=John|last2=Pirro|url=http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/The-voices-of-children-who-saw-evil-5104362.php|title=The voices of children who saw evil|newspaper=[[The News-Times]]|date=December 31, 2013|access-date=January 3, 2014|archive-date=January 2, 2014|archive-url=https://web.archive.org/web/20140102131829/http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/The-voices-of-children-who-saw-evil-5104362.php|url-status=live}}</ref>

This reference is valid, verifiable & reliable. Unless there is some reason I am unaware of, the sentence and the references should stay. But, let's discuss. Shearonink (talk) 03:48, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I can't see anything obviously wrong with this source, so it should not be removed without discussion and consensus.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:13, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Keep it. I accidentally deleted my edit summary, but the claim made in the article isn't that Lanza said those things with certainty, but that a teacher recalls him saying them. That is verifiable and the source is solid. Happieryet (talk) 21:26, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm leaning toward removing either the entire following paragraph from the article or just the second sentence of it: "Music teacher Maryrose Kristopik, 50, barricaded her fourth graders in a tiny supply closet during the rampage. One of Kristopik's students later said that Lanza arrived moments later, pounding on the door and yelling, "Let me in," while the students in Kristopik's class quietly hid inside."

Lanza pounding on the door and shouting "Let me in," or even approaching Kristopik's classroom is not corroborated by any of the official reports or by any sources published after the week following the shooting. This, despite the fact that many survivor testimonials are included in the DESPP report. Kristopik herself, as far as I can tell, has never claimed Lanza approached the door of the room, despite being interviewed shortly after the shooting.

At risk of leaning on original research, if we look at page A117 of the appendix to the State Attorney's report, Kristopik's room is on the complete opposite side of the school from where the shootings occurred. More importantly, the timelines of the shooting in the State Attorney and DESPP reports seem to preclude the possibility of Lanza ever being in that area of the school. I just don't think its possible. WP:BNS seems to apply. Thoughts? Happieryet (talk) 02:26, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Accounts of what happened during the shooting by the survivors are sometimes unclear due to the panic of the situation. It is probably best to stick to what is in the official reports.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 06:45, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]