User:The Rambling Man/ERRORS

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by The Rambling Man (talk | contribs) at 21:45, 1 August 2019 (→‎4: add). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

DYK

  • Paris is a major geographical location and as such doesn't need to be linked. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 08:32, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
  • "for the West German Schwetzingen Festival" was there an "East German Schwetzingen Festival" that year? The article doesn't mention it being "West German" explicitly so it somewhat fails the DYK rules. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 08:48, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
    No but he was an East German composer. Better wording of something unusual welcome. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:24, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
    Add "East German" before "composer" to enable people to see the unusualness. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 09:32, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Doesn't actually say "composer", are we thinking it should be
* ... that East German Udo Zimmermann composed his fifth opera, Die wundersame Schustersfrau, based on a play by Federico García Lorca, on a commission for the West German Schwetzingen Festival? --valereee (talk) 10:59, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
works, but "wrote" is shorter, and defaults to the composer for operas. You would say "wrote the libretto for ..." if you mean the librettist. "The only real nation is humanity." --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:17, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Is the "based on" clause adding anything to the hookiness of this DYK? The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 11:20, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
lol you two work it out and ping me :D --valereee (talk) 11:43, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Every time I have a German title I feel I should explain a bit. Here, a translation is really hard ("wundersam" - old-fashioned, fairy-tale - not equal to "wundervoll" = wonderful), the play has an article, but with an English title which is again meaning something different, and we can't say he based on the English, when it was Spanish, so compromise: Lorca is a rather well-known author of bitter-sweet plays, to provide a glimpse at the character of the opera for those who know him. The others can just ignore it. Needless to say, it had to be something unpolitical, in the circumstances ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:15, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Sure, the entirety of the hookiness comes from an East German working on something to be performed in West Germany. The rest is, to 99.999% of readers, intractable in the hook. They can learn more about that once they've clicked through. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 12:20, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
But how about the ten people who couldn't care less about the East-West-conflict but would be intrigued by Lorca? Which also adds - for those who will never click - that Zimmermann was open for international cultural traditions? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:08, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Maybe more interesting to emphasise he diversity if the word "Spanish" was added in there too. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 13:20, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
The article doesn't mention Spanish at all...  — Amakuru (talk) 14:39, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Lorca was Spanish, no? That could simply be added to the novel if required. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 14:44, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Would we have to add English if it was Shakespeare? Some skies are blue. - I don't think we need to mention Spanish, - Lorca is not the typical German name, and those who don't know that will probably not be attracted even with the explanation. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 14:49, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
I'm just struggling to see why including Lorca in the hook makes it in any sense more likely to attract passing readers. But there must be the addition of West German for this hook to make much sense in terms of hookiness... The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 19:06, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
West German is there, did you mean East German? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:27, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Yes. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 19:40, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
  • " English theatre historian "Popie"" no mention of such an individual or their profession. There is mention of a Walter MacQueen-Pope but not his profession, nor any such nickname. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 09:05, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
I've inserted profession into target article mention, which was useful even without the dyk; nickname is mentioned in first sentence of lede so a hover either at the hook or at the target article mention is probably enough. --valereee (talk) 11:13, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Popie is not mentioned in the DYK target article at all, that's still a problem. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 11:17, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Meh, okay, added it. --valereee (talk) 11:43, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

valereee just in case you have any time, see above. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 10:43, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

OTD

2

  • "Cannae in Apulia in southeast Italy." in in ... jarring, you could probably make one of them disappear by replacing it with a comma. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 14:59, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Three "defeats in battle" blurbs in a row, would be ideal but not mandatory to switch the middle one out if a suitable replacement could be found? The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 15:00, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
Replaced one so there are only two in a row. Jonathunder (talk) 16:00, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Leo Szilard - the article doesn't make it abundantly clear that the letter was actually written by Szilard on 2 August. Indeed my take is that Einstein dictated a letter on 2 August, and some time afterwards Szilard translated it to English... also not clear on whether it was for Roosevelt or the State Department... That part of the article is (for me) a struggle to follow... The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 15:11, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
    • Added dated 2 August and addressed to President Roosevelt to the article. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:40, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
  • 1989 Valvettiturai massacre - "began killing 64" reads very odd to me, they hadn't selected 64 to kill at the start of it. Also, the article (lead) says "approximately". The "definitive" value of 64 is given and ref'd in the infobox, but the value is never given in the main body (and as we know, facts shouldn't be in the lead alone, material there should be expanded upon in the main body...) The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 15:24, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Kyawswa of Pagan where is his DoB referenced? The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 15:25, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
    • According to wikiblame the following sentence was added at the same time by the same user: He was born on 2 August 1260. The table below lists the dates given by the four main chronicles.[6] The source is not in English and according to the article about the source, Maha Yazawin, it has never been translated to English. We have to AGF. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 18:48, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
    • @Hybernator: can you confirm the birthdate of Kyawswa of Pagan. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 18:51, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
      • We don't have to assume good faith, we should be cautious and perhaps opt to feature someone whose DoB/DoD can be more easily verified. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 18:53, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
        • I disagree. We AGF a variety of claims on the MP when the source is not in English but is cited properly. Otherwise the Main Page would only have English subjects. The user who added the claim can certainly be trust as far as I can tell. They have written a variety of articles on Burmese subjects and are still active. You are free to report it on ERRORS.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 19:19, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
          • Well no, as it stands we have no inline source for that fact, we have an inline source for the subsequent table. Indeed, somewhat ironically, the table containing only his years of birth evidently would suggest that nothing verifies even a 1260 year of birth, let alone the date. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 19:22, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Andrew Barton (privateer) - ballads section unreferenced. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 15:27, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
    • Citations added. FYI, I have not done 3 August yet. It is still showing last years.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 20:18, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
      • Coffeeandcrumbs let me know when you're ready. FYI, I'll be offline pretty much all of Saturday (at The Ashes) but should have plenty of time tomorrow to check things if you want to get a jump on 3/4/5? The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 07:28, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
        Are you going to the ground for Saturday's play? Looks like there might still be a game on, now that England have let things slip on the ninth wicket as usual.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:31, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
        I am, making my annual pilgrimage for an all-day session...! The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 17:01, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
        Nice one, enjoy! I did the odd day here and there at Lord's a few years ago, even took the kids sometimes, but I haven't got around to it recently. Always a great day out.  — Amakuru (talk) 17:59, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
        • Ready on 3. I will try to do 4/5 today. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 12:54, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
        • 4 is also ready. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 17:57, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

3

  • W. E. B. Du Bois - this is the target article yet makes no mention of the "feast day". "Episcopal Church" is an easter egg link by taking me a section of a list of observances made by such church (that should probably be linked to the "Feast day" link, which itself could be linked to Feast day if necessary)... The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 19:24, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Calendar of saints (Episcopal Church) might be a better link if this is kept. It should be added to the article; here is a source from the Standing Commission on Liturgy and Music of the Episcopal Church. However, I'm inclined to think this commemoration should not be included in OTD. Holy Men, Holy Women was a trial liturgical resource. It's not in the Book of Common Prayer. Jonathunder (talk) 19:30, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
I have added a citation to the churches website from our article on Du Bois.--- Coffeeandcrumbs 20:23, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Thank you. I reworded your addition a bit to sidestep the difficulties I was referring to (which might seem arcane to general readers). Jonathunder (talk) 20:26, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Siege of Arrah - more than 10,000, not "over 10,000". The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 19:27, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Curious: Siege of Arrah "eight days" (27 July to 3 August, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 1, 2, 3) vs Kruševo Republic "ten days" (3 August to 13 August, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13... eleven??) The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 19:31, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Order of the Star in the East is writ in USEng, so it's an 'organization' not an 'organisation'. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 19:32, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
    • Converted article to Indian English per NATIONALTIES. --- Coffeeandcrumbs 20:29, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
  • 2005 Mauritanian coup d'état - not seeing 3 August cited in the article. And only mentioned in the lead and not expanded upon in the main prose... The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 19:34, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Raúl Iturriaga - the source (LA Times) is dated 3 August yet says he was captured on the Thursday. Well 3 August 2007 was a Friday so I guess he was captured on 2 August. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 19:36, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

4

  • Cook Islands - I would argue that Cook Islands is a better target article than the really stubby shoddy Public holidays in the Cook Islands, bold it the other way round and add a sentence (ref'd of course) into the Cook Islands article mentioning the date explicitly. Win-win. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 20:38, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Mount Asama - no need to link volcano, I think 99.9% of our readers knows that word. We do however have List of volcanoes in Japan which could be a more interesting link if you piped "in Japan" after volcano. Also, it was the "climactic " eruption, as the original (plinian) eruption began months earlier... The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 20:43, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
  • "A second U.S. Navy destroyer was reportedly " I don't think this stands alone well. Perhaps "The second of two U.S. Navy destroyers was..."? And "reportedly" seems a little strong, both sides have since denied anything ever happened... The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 20:48, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
    • "allegedly" or some rewriting to use "falsely claimed"? I am thinking "falsely claimed". --- Coffeeandcrumbs 21:30, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
      • Yeah, the latter would be strong enough. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 21:45, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

5

TBC

Message board

I've never had any problems inside the DYK process, just precisely as Dweller says. There has never been a problem with my DYK reviews (nor any other reviews for that matter) and that's all this clarification was seeking to address. The topic ban came about following numerous arguments at the DYK project talk page, usually relating to my continual complaints about the lack of quality. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 15:25, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

That seems a fair summary of the situation. You sometimes get a bit snippy with people who don't acknowledge poorly-written or inaccurate hooks, which led to the current situation where you mutually agreed not to interact with those people on the DYK boards. The measure was not supposed to be punative, though... (indeed, no sanctions on Wikipedia are supposed to be so, they are supposed to be purely to deter and to prevent future harm). So allowing you to perform reviews for those happy to receive them should be a no-brainer.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:45, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
Well indeed. But arbs are apparently at liberty to ignore evidence and just vote on personal feelings. It’s beginning to demonstrate perhaps why the Framgate situation got out of control, with Arbs unable to decouple themselves from their personal thoughts and act according to the trust the community apparently placed in them to judge evidence. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 16:36, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
I trust few arbs, but IF we have to have them I vote for those I mistrust the least. My experience, leading to no trust, was that one of today's sitting arbs voted to ban a user mentioning an edit which was purely an application of the MoS (but probably misread by said arb, and even he agreed to that when questioned in 2018), and NONE of his colleagues intervened, telling me that they also didn't look, or misread the same way. (But almost every candidate I questioned that year was able to see it as it was.) Opabinia regalis came later, and saw most things more clearly, but I'm afraid doesn't understand DYK well enough ..., - yes, disappointing. Diappointment is the end of deception, they say in German. (Ent-täuschung) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:26, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
This is why if we need to replace the retired Arbs with one of those from the B-list, we need time to re-assess their behaviour in the intervening period. The behaviour of these individuals before they were voted for and after they were elected isn't necessarily the same, generally disappointingly so. The Rambling Man (REJOICE!) 12:31, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
Agree. In the election for 2018, I asked them if they agreed with OR in a certain case, and I voted for those who had said yes. Came the case again, did they vote with her? No. Joefromrandb was banned for 6 months, why? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:44, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
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