Talk:Ruido de sables

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A merge with saber rattling does seem logical. But a redirect to here, since it's the origine of the expression, could be in order, with the creation of a disambiguation page for the general sense of the expression and events which may be referred to in the same way (as Operation Galaxia and 23-F during the Spanish transition to democracy, and also maybe the Carapintadas attempted coups in Argentina). Tazmaniacs 22:56, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If the expression sabre rattling refers back to an incident of 1924, why was the term sabre-rattling already in use 1922? The Oxford English Dictionary has this quote: 1922 Weekly Dispatch 19 Nov. 8 A policy of adventure, *sabre-rattling, and reckless expenditure.

This article needs citations to justify its claim as the origin of 'saber rattling.' The reference to the act traces back beyond the 1920s if one looks at rattling sabers, etc. ~ (The Rebel At) ~ 14:25, 14 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe it is the origin of the term. The term is similar to swashbuckler (originally meaning to beat your sword on your shield) and it was a common action, particularly before the age of guns. See also charivari.--Jack Upland (talk) 16:59, 28 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sources certainly show usage going back to the 1880s in England, and widespread use in the US press as a political metaphor by the start of the 20th century. Perhaps the Chilean incident led to the adoption of the metaphor in the Spanish-speaking world, but it wasn't the origin in English. --Lord Belbury (talk) 18:40, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It has been proposed in this section that Ruido de sables be renamed and moved to Saber rattling. A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil. Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly. Links: current log • target log • direct move

Saber noise → Saber rattling – WP:COMMONNAME. "Saber rattling" has 300 times the Google results, and that's even with the "saber noise" results including people talking about lightsabres. I can only see a couple of book quotes using "saber noise" in this article's context, and the phrase doesn't register on an NGrams search.

From the article history, this page was originally created as a literal English translation of the Chilean ruido de sables incident, and a separate article about the English political metaphor was merged into it. Lord Belbury (talk) 18:12, 14 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support in principle, but most of this article is still about the event in Chile. It would be good to add content about the English-language idiom before renaming. 'Sabre noise' seems to be a direct translation of the Spanish, referring to the event in Chile, but by far the most common phrasing in English is 'sabre rattling'. Saber/sabre is a WP:ENGVAR issue; the first version of this page used 'saber' while our article on the sword is at sabre. Unless 'sabre' meets WP:COMMONALITY I don't see a strong reason to change the spelling here. Modest Genius ^talk 11:34, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The original English title of the article about the Chilean protest may just be a poor choice of word for the translation: most book sources and Spanish dictionaries appear to translate it as "saber rattling" rather than "saber noise". --Lord Belbury (talk) 11:44, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• The Chilean event section should just be split off into its own article (ie. undo the merge) the English term should be located at "sabre rattling" or somesuch, and the Chilean event should be moved to "Ruido de sables" -- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 07:02, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Move to Ruido de sables - this is an article about one specific event that lacks an English-language name. This article isn't about saber-rattling at all, and it's very very unlikely that we would ever have an article about that--WP:NOTDICT and all that Red Slash 03:39, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Ruido de sables move, good point about NOTDICT. es:Ruido de sables (Chile) backs up the idea that the Chilean usage is different from English, autotranslating as: The expression exists in many languages (eg "sabre rattling" in English), but in Chile it has taken on the meaning of discomfort of the military regarding their own government or attempted coup d'état. --Lord Belbury (talk) 09:46, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Ruido de sables and repurpose back to an article about the specific event in Chile. -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:32, 21 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]