Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions
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* In my view, this is outside of the scope of the ARBPIA restrictions. The article at issue, [[Project Amad]], is about an Iranian nuclear program which Israel considers a threat. Iran is not an Arab country. It does have a conflict with Israel, but that's not part of the [[Arab-Israeli conflict|''Arab''-Israeli conflict]], which is what the restrictions apply to. Our article about the Arab-Israeli conflict mentions Iran only in passing. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Sandstein|<span style="color:white;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Sandstein '''</span>]]</span></small> 08:49, 3 May 2018 (UTC) |
* In my view, this is outside of the scope of the ARBPIA restrictions. The article at issue, [[Project Amad]], is about an Iranian nuclear program which Israel considers a threat. Iran is not an Arab country. It does have a conflict with Israel, but that's not part of the [[Arab-Israeli conflict|''Arab''-Israeli conflict]], which is what the restrictions apply to. Our article about the Arab-Israeli conflict mentions Iran only in passing. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Sandstein|<span style="color:white;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Sandstein '''</span>]]</span></small> 08:49, 3 May 2018 (UTC) |
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*I agree that this falls outside ARBPIA. "Arab-Israeli" doesn't mean the conflict involves one or the other, the scope is conflict ''between'' the two. Since Iran is not an Arabic country, conflict between it and Israel is not Arab-Israeli conflict. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 01:43, 4 May 2018 (UTC) |
*I agree that this falls outside ARBPIA. "Arab-Israeli" doesn't mean the conflict involves one or the other, the scope is conflict ''between'' the two. Since Iran is not an Arabic country, conflict between it and Israel is not Arab-Israeli conflict. [[User:Seraphimblade|Seraphimblade]] <small><sup>[[User talk:Seraphimblade|Talk to me]]</sup></small> 01:43, 4 May 2018 (UTC) |
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*This is not the first time that the question of ARBPIA enforcement on Iranian-Israeli relations has come up. The response seems to have generally been that Iran is involved in the Arab-Israeli conflict, mainly through its proxies, but that this doesn't make ''every'' edit or article related to Iran-Israel relations subject to ARBPIA DS (compare [ |
*This is not the first time that the question of ARBPIA enforcement on Iranian-Israeli relations has come up. The response seems to have generally been that Iran is involved in the Arab-Israeli conflict, mainly through its proxies, but that this doesn't make ''every'' edit or article related to Iran-Israel relations subject to ARBPIA DS (compare [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive46#Jayjg|this request]] with [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive123#Talknic|this one]] and [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive219#Psychonot|this one]] and perhaps [[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive76#Gilabrand|this one]]). In this case, I agree with others that [[Project Amad]], while it is linked to Israel-Iran relations, is not related to the Arab-Israeli conflict and therefore not subject to 1RR. [[User:GoldenRing|GoldenRing]] ([[User talk:GoldenRing|talk]]) 08:57, 4 May 2018 (UTC) |
Revision as of 09:29, 4 May 2018
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
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For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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יניב הורון
No administrator appears interested in taking action at this time. Feel free to unclose this thread if you are. Sandstein 08:27, 2 May 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning יניב הורון
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles, specifically
Previously blocked under Arbitration enforcement, see above
IMO, both of the above edits are quite outrageous...this editor is, IMO, not ready for the ARBPIA area. I suggest a topic ban from the IP area for ...quite a while. Huldra (talk) 23:35, 21 April 2018 (UTC) I am rather surprised to see some editors arguing that since Jerusalem Post is WP:RS, then we must allow anything from it. Well, for me there is one thing that trumps WP:RS, and that is: is it true? Take the village Al-Attara (which I just expanded): Adam Zertal (who was a professor in archaeology) writes that Victor Guérin found 300 inhabitants here. I absolutely totally refuse to put that into the article. Why? Because Victor Guérin wrote that about 'Atara.....and Zertal has mixed up the two villages. (See User:Huldra/Guerin if you doubt me.) Yes, professors can also be wrong. Inserting an article with the headline "Until 1996, nobody called Rachel’s Tomb a mosque" (when there are sources calling it a mosque going back centuries) is just as bad. We are directly misinforming Wikipedia readers. I thought we could do better than that, Huldra (talk) 21:44, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
Notified Huldra (talk) 23:39, 21 April 2018 (UTC) Discussion concerning יניב הורוןStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by יניב הורוןIn this case I haven't broken any rule of Wikipedia. There's no edit-warring in the first place! Here I wanted to show that Kamal Nasser was targeted as part of Israel's Operation Wrath of God, which is a fact, but making sure that his involvement in the Munich massacre is an allegation. You reverted my edit anyway, and I didn't insist. Regarding this edit, the JP source explains that Rachel's tomb wasn't called "Bilal bin Rabah mosque" before 1996. You may not like my edits, you could revert them or discuss in talk page, but you have no right to censor me because I disagree with you in an article or two. I mean, are you serious?--יניב הורון (talk) 23:57, 21 April 2018 (UTC)
@Seraphimblade:: Just to clarify, my previous sanctions were because I was not familiarized with ARBPIA rules. I didn't have experience in Wikipedia before. The first sanction was because I made this edit before I had an extended-confirmed user (while the article wasn't protected at the time, hence my confusion). The second one was because I didn't understand the third bullet of ARBPIA, which has nothing to do with 1RR: "If an edit is reverted by another editor, its original author may not restore it within 24 hours of the revert." Nevertheless, when I understood the rule, I accepted the sanction and didn't repeat the violation again. However, in this case, Huldra and MShabazz have no reason to accuse me of violating any rule. I didn't break 1RR nor the third bullet, and I WAS NOT engaged in edit-warring (as you can see here: one single half-revert; here: one single revert; and here: two reverts, precisely because the other user broke the third bullet). How can you call this "edit-warring" or "being disruptive"? I ask you to be fair instead of considering me "problematic" just because other editors -whose political agenda I happen to disagree with- want to have less competitors in a sensitive topic. Please, check my contributions and you will see I'm not here to disrupt anything. All my contributions (mainly in Jewish and Israeli-related articles) are significant and meaningful, based on reliable sources. I understand if other editors disagree with them, and they are welcome to revert me and discuss in talk pages, but that's not a reason to ban me.--יניב הורון (talk) 18:08, 22 April 2018 (UTC) @Sandstein:: I'm an Israeli Jew (and proud of it), of course I don't have any "natural loathing" against my own people. On the contrary, I was referring to a comment made by Shabazz in 2015 where he said literally (excuse my language) "the Jewboy has chased out the nigger." After that I tried to apologize because I thought Shabazz was the victim of such a disgusting insult, but later Shabazz himself admitted that HE was the author of the racist slur, apparently because he was tired of being "harrassed" by someone of Jewish extraction. In any case, it has nothing to do with our present discussion, except that it shows that those who accuse me of having a "biased" and "POV agenda" are the least suited to speak about such matters. The irony is that I've never had a previous discussion with Shabazz in any talk page. But for some reason he wants to get rid of me based on spurious accusations. In any case, I invite him to have a civilized discussion to achieve consensus instead of resorting to deplorable tactics to censor editors who don't share his views.--יניב הורון (talk) 21:06, 22 April 2018 (UTC) @Huon:: Please, explain me how exactly I broke 1RR. I made the second revert 24 hours after my first revert, not within the 24 hours period.--יניב הורון (talk) 21:11, 22 April 2018 (UTC) @Huon:: What is "gaming the system"? Am I allowed to make another revert after 24 hours passed? Yes or no? Tell me the rules so I'll be more careful next time. I thought 1RR only counts for more than one revert made within a 24 hours period. Thanks.--יניב הורון (talk) 21:18, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
@GoldenRing: Even though technically I didn't brake a rule, I understand that perhaps I have been over aggressive here. I'll try to make less reverts against other users and participate in talk pages more.--יניב הורון (talk) 14:23, 23 April 2018 (UTC) @Zero0000: Calm down. I've made almost 1,400 edits so far, and I barely started. Sometimes I make mistakes. WP:Newbies, WP:Civility--יניב הורון (talk) 10:18, 27 April 2018 (UTC) @Nishidani: As I told you before, WP:ONUS is on YOU to gain consensus and show us the encyclopedic value of that piece of propaganda. A reliable source is a necessary, but not always sufficient requirement for adding content, specially so controversial and POV. I usually don't revert well-sourced content, but in this particular case the material was an opinion piece written by a non-notable individual. You should start a discussion on the talk page of the article to gain consensus before reinserting disputed content, instead of going to AE because you don't like my way of editing. That's as frivolous as Huldra's request.--יניב הורון (talk) 17:22, 1 May 2018 (UTC) @Huldra: What matters is the quality, not the quantity of the reverts (which is not a bad word). Contributing to Wikipedia also means undoing vandalism and unappropriate edits, although most of my reverts were made against IPs who are not allowed to edit in the first place, NOT legitimate users. I can justify every single revert that I made. Can you do the same? I think that, at this point, every honest user can realize this AE you started is ridiculous.--יניב הורון (talk) 21:06, 1 May 2018 (UTC) @Nishidani: lol! And I'm the bad guy here with a "POV bias" that makes me supposedly unable to edit in ARBPIA. Anyway, how about using the talk page of the article instead of AE? Statement by Malik Shabazzיניב הורון is misinformed when they argue that they have done no wrong because they haven't been edit-warring. They have been engaged in POV-pushing, which is far worse. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 00:25, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
Number 57, the old "But he started it" defense is meaningless when an editor breaks a bright-line rule like 1RR. As a sysop, you ought to know better. Please don't insult my intellectual or further embarrass yourself by continuing that twisted "logic". — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 07:12, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
Oh god, how I wish editors would stop @GoldenRing: Icewhiz has provided the edits to which I was referring. I thought somebody else had cited another article where יניב הורון had done the same thing. Because I'm not able to find one, I've stricken my comment about two instances. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 01:13, 24 April 2018 (UTC) Statement by MPS1992Did the user against whom enforcement is requested really just write this, or do I need new spectacles?!? MPS1992 (talk) 01:45, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
Statement by TheGracefulSlickI would have settled for the one-week block, but this editor's behavior here and on the topic overall gives me no confidence that it will magically make them change their ways. Their talk page alone is a good indication of how "collaborative" this editor is in this sensitive topic area. Since יניב הורון cannot keep their biases in check, cannot adhere to editing restrictions, and cannot edit collaboratively, they are not needed or wanted in the topic area; it is a priviledge they simply have demonstrated they do not deserve.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 03:43, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Number 57@MShabazz: If you go back to the start of that dispute, the first edit in this chain was by Onceinawhile to remove the source; it was then restored by Icewhiz, then removed by Huldra, then restored again by יניב הורון. If יניב הורון has broken the spirit of the rules, then so has Huldra. However neither has broken the rules as worded, so I don't see this as actionable. Number 57 05:25, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
Statement by IcewhizHuldra raises two issues. Both should not be actionable:
Statement by Pluto2012MPS1992 and Malik Shabazz's comments are full of sense. This editor arrived 2 months ago and already "investigated" on the past of another contributor. His global behaviour is agressive and suspicious. He games the system in reverting after 24 hours and... 2 minutes. He fails Wikipedia:Here to build an encyclopedia. He should be topic-banned of the articles related to the I-P conflict. Pluto2012 (talk) 05:54, 22 April 2018 (UTC)
Statement by tritomexNothing shown here by Huldra, justifies sanctions against יניב הורון In fact I do not see why Huldra sees Jerusalem Post article as unreliable, nor I see any proves (sources) that the claim sourced with JP [9] is falls. In fact I found many additional WP:RSN that states that the identification of that place as Bilal ibn Rabah mosque dates from 1996. This dosent mean that the place was not considered a place of worship, by Jews, Christians and Muslims as well for centuries. As in the case of all questions that could be related to Arab-Israeli conflict, there is a lot of bias here and very little substantial from editors who could be seen as uniinvolved.Tritomex (talk) 12:39, 22 April 2018 (UTC) Statement by 73.95.138.207Clearly a WP:NOTHERE and engaging in blatant edit-warring with a battleground mindset. Look at the following edits [10][11][12][13]the first four in rapid succession on random articles with no other common denominator other than to be disruptive toward the editor named Agustin6. Add to this that this editor has already been blocked TWICE and warned multiple times for edit-warring in his short time here. Then it doesn't seem SO odd to include the circumstantial evidence that this editor jumped right into the mix with a clear understanding of how wikipedia works. Then ADD to that edit summaries like these two [14][15] which are battleground in tone and certainly WP:FORUM. Suggest ban to give editor time out to think about his actions and a topic ban. Would offer something more but at work and had to rush this as it was. Gotta go.73.95.138.207 (talk) 16:57, 22 April 2018 (UTC) Statement by SantiLak@Icewhiz: With all due respect, I don't think you understand 1RR. You claimed I violated 1RR and יניב הורון didn't because I made a content edit and then made 1 revert yet they just made 2 reverts. That's a textbook case of 1RR by יניב הורון. I didn't make 2 reverts and there is no such thing as the "the original authorship provision." I should have reported them for edit warrring and violating 1RR but I didn't because I felt like following BRD. Like another user said, it's a clear case of WP:NOTHERE, a topic ban is very appropriate. - SantiLak (talk) 21:03, 22 April 2018 (UTC) Statement by OtterAMAs a number of people have pointed out יניב הורון has not actually broken any rules with the two edits that have been brought to attention here. I don't think the edits stand out as being egregious either. For example, the Jerusalem Post -- an 85 year old English-language Jewish publication in Israel, and is a well known source. Thus, it's not clear that the information would be suspect for the second edit that Huldra mentioned. This topic is full of editors who, in my opinion, like to over wiki-overlitigate the smallest offense. The accusing editors here have certainly done their share of controversial edits. @Seraphimblade: I don't think it would be fair to topic-ban this one editor as you suggested below because I don't see qualitative difference between his style of editing and the style of editing of other long-standing editors on this topical area. Regarding these statements, why can't we just return the pages to their consensus version. Then, if people really care so much about these two controversies, start appropriate request-for-comments sections to decide which version to include. OtterAM (talk) 03:10, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Statement by My very best wishesThis is a relatively new and inexperienced user who was close to violating 1RR on one of pages (it is not unusual for such contributors to follow rules very literally, although yes, that might be the "gaming"). I do not think that merits a topic ban. Editing in ARBPIA area is extremely difficult. I also agree with Sandstein. As a note of order, there is currently a thread about the same user on the ANI [16]. Not sure how you usually treat such cases. Both complaints, i.e on the ANI and that one, look to me as an attempt to exclude an "opponent" who has been involved in various content disputes. My very best wishes (talk) 16:25, 23 April 2018 (UTC)
Statement by E.M.GregoryThis discussion is a shinning example of one of the biggest problems with Wikipedia: experienced editors with an OWN attitude and political POV who pounce on new editors who disagree with them politically - and vote them off the island, or chase them off with persistent aggression. To my sorrow, I have encountered Huldra [17] before, most memorably at the nightmarish Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Murder of Georgios Tsibouktzakis; she is WP:NOTHERE]]. I am less well acquainted with (יניב הורו) [18], but I do know that the WP:BATTLEGROUND attitude taken by too many editors in the I/P area makes Wikipedia a nasty, brutish place. Promising editors become disgusted and leave, or - if we stay - shy away from the politically fraught arenas where good editors are most needed. Editors who are sufficiently aggressive can and do slant articles in highly POV ways, simply by making editing unpleasant for those they disagree with. And many good editors like Sandstein spend enormous amounts of time on discussions that, like this one, are driven by intense POV animus. I do see that legal sanctions serve a purpose. But also that they are a tool too often used merely to "win." End of rant.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:46, 26 April 2018 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000This edit made just hours ago is illustrative of how useless this editor is. With the claim of "restoring source", he reinserted a dead link. Obviously he never even clicked on it, or if he did click he didn't care that nothing was there. If he had gone to the trouble of locating an archived version, like I did before I deleted the link, he would have seen that it doesn't even mention the topic of the article. Nor does it mention any of the matters raised in the paragraph to which he attached the dead link. I shouldn't have to clean up after someone with such a blasé attitude to article integrity. Zerotalk 23:25, 26 April 2018 (UTC) Statement by ShrikeThe diff presented by Zero0000 had nothing to do with WP:ARBPIA.So I don't understand how its relevant.--Shrike (talk) 15:24, 27 April 2018 (UTC) Statement by YnhockeyJust noticed this, and I have to say that while Yaniv made some mistakes, this report strikes me as particularly frivolous. Regarding any improper past actions taken by Yaniv, I am willing to mentor him if necessary. At the same time, this is a clear issue of WP:KETTLE, when one editor participating in an edit war blames the other one over a technicality (talk about gaming the system). —Ynhockey (Talk) 15:55, 29 April 2018 (UTC) Statement by NishidaniToday, as this discussion continues, in the following edit Yaniv challenges and removes a trite, commonplace judgement of the New York Times, writing in his edit-summary: I.e. He took out a description of the context sourced to the New York Times because he dislikes their choice of language, of referring with attribution to the Gazans as 'desperate' and privately thinks it is inaccurate. There is no policy ground given in the edit-summary, and when asked on his page to revert, he cites WP:ONUS in defence. This POV-warrior defence is frowned on, because thus used, WP:Onus trumps WP:RS because it becomes a form of entitlement to erase anything regardless of the quality of the source or of any other policy regarding sound practice, and then throw the burden into the other editor's court. Despite the apocalyptic descriptions of the I/P area as a death zone where the well-intentioned are driven out by hypocrites or battleground POV paladins, it works under the ARBPIA3 regime because that demands experience and a thorough knowledge of the rules that at least relieve these pages of haphazard loose cannon editing, wild card reverting of WP:RS out of distaste. Yaniv's latest edit confirms Zero's point above: it is an open invitation to make revert battles inevitable. Whatever their POVs, the great majority of IP editors respect high quality mainstream RS, a shared recognition that oner should not cavil over the obvious which reduces the conflict considerably. This editor doesn't, and allowing him to edit with this singular license to contest even what is generally accepted is unfair. It means those who side with his perspective can rely on his ignorance of good practice to remove 'stuff' they themselves do not normally challenge. My example is not a content dispute: it is an instance of the editor in question refusing to observe what is a shared agreement about sourcing out of sheer distaste.Nishidani (talk) 15:55, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by TheTimesAreAChangingWithout looking too deeply into the merits of this request, as I'm hardly a fixture in the I/P area and have only previously interacted with יניב הורון once or twice, I must say that Nishidani's latest comment is quite mistaken regarding Wikipedia's sourcing requirements. An editorial, even from the editorial board of The New York Times, is never a reliable source for statements of fact in Wikipedia's voice, according to WP:RSOPINION. Of course, the content that יניב הורון removed was attributed to The New York Times, but—crucially—not identified as an editorial, and it's not clear why it would belong in a neutrally summarized "Background" section at all. When one considers that the very next sentence is also devoted to an opinion piece, this time by Peter Beinart in The Forward—initially with attribution to Beinart but then allowing Beinart to speak for the UN in wikivoice—it appears that poor quality sources have been juxtaposed in a questionable way to slant a "just the facts" "Background" into advancing a particular narrative, when—as My very best wishes has noted—commentary of this kind would be more appropriate in a subsection dedicated to "Media commentary". Note that יניב הורון only challenged the emotional language of the New York Times editorial, not the Beinart opinion piece, presumably because he knows that there are better sources than Beinart for the same factual claim. In any case, the diff presented by Nishidani as a "smoking gun" should be regarded as non-actionable and a content dispute.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 20:55, 1 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by DavidbenaWhile I have only recently come to know of Yaniv Huron (Hebrew: יניב הורון), and have had some of my own edits reverted by him, I still have no qualms about the contributions of this new editor, seeing that he adds a new vitality to our encyclopedia. While it is true that he has made a few mistakes (as we all do), overall his contributions are very good. His mistakes have been pointed out here, and I think he will learn from his mistakes. Let us give him the benefit of the doubt.Davidbena (talk) 02:56, 2 May 2018 (UTC) Result concerning יניב הורון
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K.e.coffman
Admins reviewing the situation are of the opinion that no enforcement action is necessary. Seraphimblade Talk to me 00:17, 30 April 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning K.e.coffman
At last count it was about 6 for the purposed text and 5 against shown by votes at the end of this section. An RFC or spin off article was suggested in the discussions but had not happened yet. The page is under 1RR and consensus required here. PackMecEng (talk) 14:12, 26 April 2018 (UTC) @Sandstein: I think you might be reading it backwards. BullRangifer added it on the 12th, I reverted same day, and K.e.coffman restored it on the 24th. PackMecEng (talk) 16:32, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
@Masem: I had brought up the BLP aspect in a few places on that mess of a talk page, hard to find anything on there at this point. Others in the votes had brought up the NPOV aspects as well. I am surprised that you would say given the arguments it was enough of a consensus for restoration or at least enough for it to be uncontroversial enough for the "If in doubt, don't make the edit" portion. PackMecEng (talk) 00:44, 27 April 2018 (UTC) @Objective3000: I will note I brought up it two separate times on the talk page [19] & [20] as well as talked with them on their talk page after they reinserted the information. I think it would be fair to say I made a fair effort to go though my options before coming here. Also yes 12 days of active discussion both ways, which is still going on, does not seem to be a consensus situation. If I am in the wrong in this situation I apologies, I have never wanted to bring someone here, nor have I ever in the past, and did try in good faith to avoid it. PackMecEng (talk) 01:55, 27 April 2018 (UTC) So is this basically going to yes he should not of done that but no action? I would at least hope there is a warning and revert. PackMecEng (talk) 15:43, 28 April 2018 (UTC)
Discussion concerning K.e.coffmanStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by K.e.coffmanI made the edit nearly two weeks after the initial edit/revert, with plenty of discussion in between. One of the opposes that PME lists hinged on not including the pre-presidency material, which has been rectified: [22], so I don't believe it should be included in PME's tally. One ivote was unclear & remains uncounted, but I interpreted it as leaning "support". I would be happy to self-revert if deemed appropriate. I also note that PME did not include in the filing the discussion he and I had on my Talk page, where I offered, for example, to clarify the uncounted vote: #Presidency of Donald Trump. It's possible that I acted prematurely since, after a lull, the discussion continued today with two additional opinions: one oppose & one support, but I did see rough consensus when I made the edit. I also would have appreciated letting me respond to the last PME's message on my TP vs seeing this report filed. In general, no other editor has objected to the edit, either on my TP or on the article's TP, where the discussion instead moved onto what heading the section should have: Better heading, with comments such as: ...we have never seen a politician like Trump, etc. Still, I apologise for the disruption this may have caused and I can self-revert if needed. K.e.coffman (talk) 22:35, 26 April 2018 (UTC) Statement by (SPECIFICO)This complaint is battleground nonsense. There was evident consensus at the talk page after extensive discussion, and K.e.coffman has had not a hint of aggressive or POV editing now or ever in his contributions to American Politics. There's no RfC at play here, and the insinuation of a mooted RfC is a further battleground blur of the facts. SPECIFICO talk 19:31, 26 April 2018 (UTC) Statement by Objective3000Seems minor with what we're used to these days. (Although it's amazing what you can get used to.) Suggest KEC self-rvt and the filer withdraw the complaint. O3000 (talk) 00:17, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
Statement by BullRangiferSince that content has SINCE been subjected to radical alterations to bring it into line with the complaints of those who at first opposed it, we now have a situation where, through the normal process of collaborative editing (by editors who hold opposing POV), the content is compliant with a clear consensus; most of the opposition is satisfied. It would now make no sense to undo content which is largely satisfactory. Let's just close this thread and move on. Let's not destroy what has been fixed. -- BullRangifer (talk) PingMe 00:30, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
References
Statement by PolitrukkiThe content currently in the article pretty much reflects my oppose (which was limited to events that predate Trump presidency, I believe K.e.coffman is now retro-actively counting my oppose as full support), but K.e.coffman acted improperly. When K.e.coffman said (23 April) they were going to reinstate the material, I asked them to explain how the content is not original research. I find their dismissal ( Regardless of whether this enforcement request has merits, it would be wise for K.e.coffman to self-revert, which would allow rebooting the discussion: it is becoming increasingly difficult to say whether the editors are supporting/opposing the original proposal or what is currently in the article. Politrukki (talk) 10:59, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
Statement by AtsmeAs I was reading the comments, I literally had to wipe the Cheetos residue from my fingertips so I could respond. Greasy Granola (make that cheesy not greasy)! [FBDB] I'm too much of a softy to see anyone get blocked or TB when they're productively debating an issue and not using the F-word inappropriately Statement by (username)Result concerning K.e.coffman
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The Banner
The Banner is topic-banned from everything related to genetically modified organisms, commercially produced agricultural chemicals and the companies that produce them. The Banner is invited to request review of this sanction after six-months of productive, conflict-free editing in other topic areas. Sandstein 18:36, 30 April 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning The Banner
Discussion concerning The BannerStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by The BannerThis filing is a typical example of preventing criticism and killing off discussion. The Banner talk 21:19, 27 April 2018 (UTC) Statement by Kingofaces43I wouldn't call this mild trolling, but rather persistent long-term disruptive editing. There's a pretty good record of The Banner getting a mild sanction (usually a block) saying it wasn't that bad, but don't do it again only for the cycle to repeat. The only reason The Banner hasn't been topic-banned with the other editors in this topic (this is a good example of this same rhetoric at AE and what it leads to) is because they normally pop in the topic for a little bit, make accusations like this, and then leave. They knew this behavior was inappropriate going in, and it doesn't look like it's going to stop at all either. One can say don't feed the trolls, but us editors in the topic have been doing that for years, which is why I proposed the principle at the original ArbCom case meant to tamp down on this this years ago. Editors who blatantly do this just make the topic more toxic and disruptive. The last thing we want are editors who rile things up to the way it was around the ArbCom case. There's a whole mess of casting aspersions that comes up with The Banner fairly often at admin boards as well as other diffs that usually get a slap on the wrist since the picture is usually viewed in isolation rather than the long-term history:
That's just from my quick perusal outside glyphosate, but it's pretty clear they have no qualms with maintaining a battleground mentality after so many warnings by frequently referencing cabals, industry influence, etc. I can't say I recall once when an editor cautioned The Banner about this without them taking the opportunity to continue sniping like we see in their response here. They've had plenty of other sanctions already, so whatever happens, I'd just ask that we don't have to keep dealing with it in the GMO/pesticide topics anymore (organic food falls into the broadly construed). That principle was put in place so editors who resorted to that kind of behavior could be more easily removed for something they shouldn't need to be warned about in the first place. While not quite as disruptive on a regular basis like other editors that have been topic-banned, there's also a point where we need to say enough is enough. Kingofaces43 (talk) 01:44, 28 April 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning The Banner
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Phmoreno
Clear-cut violations and no acknowledgement that reverts violated restrictions. Blocked 72 hours. --NeilN talk to me 23:45, 29 April 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Phmoreno
The user also fills the talk pages (and occasionally articles) with conspiracy mongering nonsense: "[33]" and [34] (needless to say this is a gross misrepresentation of sources) and [35] (pushing a discredited and obnoxious conspiracy theory - and when this was disposed off with a very apt reply by User:Objective3000 [36], Phmoreno just doubles down with yet another conspiracy theory based on a conspiracy website [37]). And then more misrepresentation of sources [38] in which there's also some BLP vios (alleging criminal behavior) While strictly speaking these are more or less content issues (to the extent that trying to include conspiracy theories in an article is a content issue), they do demonstrate a WP:NOTHERE. Regardless, the 1RR violation and the "consensus required" violations are pretty straight forward.Volunteer Marek (talk) 21:13, 29 April 2018 (UTC) Hey @Phmoreno:, can you provide diffs or links or explanations for the following claims:
Discussion concerning PhmorenoStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Phmoreno
I restored an edit that was reverted by a false claim that it hand no consensus on Talk. I actually did have a consensus so there should have no been no initial revert of my edit. Second revert still based on false claim involving first. Please see Talk and clear my record of this.Phmoreno (talk) 21:43, 29 April 2018 (UTC) Among the comments: "This sounds like legitimate content, maybe in the section we have about litigation. We cover this kind of thing. Go for it." There were also false claims about OR because it was a primary source (the DeSantis letter); however, there was defense of using it in the discussion. The source is perfectly legitimate in the way it was used. Someone started another Talk section defending me.Phmoreno (talk) 22:32, 29 April 2018 (UTC) As for "pushing conspiracy theories about Steele, Clinton, et al. being arrested" I did not say they were going to be arrested, I said they were referred for criminal investigation based on the Grassley-Graham memo (Steele- last paragraph) and the DeSantis letter (official document of House of Representatives) referring the others related to specific laws cited in the letter.Phmoreno (talk) 22:23, 29 April 2018 (UTC) Statement by WinkelviOver 11k edits, has been here for quite a while, so not a newbie and WP:NOTHERE doesn't seem to apply. "Conspiracy theories" on talk pages gets a big shrug from me. My opinion is they aren't any more annoying than many editors I've encountered in my time at Wikipedia and are much less annoying that those who revert endlessly and pointedly in order to game 1RR. Warning only, no block, in my opinion. Maybe some mentoring could be offered? -- ψλ ● ✉ ✓ 21:22, 29 April 2018 (UTC) Statement by power~enwikiIt might be for the best if Trump–Russia dossier were full-protected for a while to avoid this bickering about the day-by-day theories from both sides, and to force changes to get consensus on the talk page. As that's unlikely to happen, I see some merit to these claims. There's a technical violation of 1RR/Consensus required, but I'd be willing to ignore that. More troublingly, Phmoreno has been pushing claims that the Steele memo is going to result in Steele, McCabe, Hillary Clinton, or someone else being arrested for a long time ([40], [41]). Until someone is actually arrested, this is either gossip or POV pushing. I think we need to wait on a statement from Phmoreno, but a TBAN from pages about both Donald Trump and Russia seems like the right sanction at first glance. In response to the "the other side does it too" comments, there are likely other editors who should be TBAN-ed from that page, as is allowed by Discretionary Sanctions. power~enwiki (π, ν) 21:35, 29 April 2018 (UTC) Result concerning Phmoreno
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Andrewpostman93
Blocked per WP:NOTHERE as a regular admin action (not AE). TonyBallioni (talk) 03:23, 1 May 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Andrewpostman93
The three diffs series above, are the only thing this user has done in WP. They clearly have some real-world beef with Garcia and are carrying that out here in violation of WP:BLPCOI and the discretionary sanctions.
Discussion concerning Andrewpostman93Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Andrewpostman93Statement by (username)Result concerning Andrewpostman93
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Cassianto
Cassianto is topic-banned from infoboxes for three months. Sandstein 21:33, 2 May 2018 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Cassianto
Cassianto was placed on infobox probation. Infobox probation prohibits him from posting more than one comment in any discussion about infoboxes. Cassianto has posted more than one comment on Mary Shelley and Stanley Kubrick.
n/a, Cassianto just came off his self-requested block.
n/a
Discussion concerning CassiantoStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by CassiantoKnock yourself out. I've made it my policy NEVER to plead for forgiveness as this is just a website and I'm just a volunteer, so it bothers me not about being blocked, especially as I'm more tan keen to sit out self-requested blocks. FWIW, and having said that, I wasn't aware of the "no more than one comment" bullshit, but knew of my restriction NOT to touch idiotboxes, which I haven't. Unlike some people on here, I have a private life to attend to so I didn't concern myself with the intricacies of the outcome. CassiantoTalk 19:57, 2 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by SchroCatRather predictable that at least one person would have so little to do with their time that they would start stalking someone who has just been through ArbCom. I guess that speaks more about the stalker than the 'stalkee', but there you go. The comments made by Cassianto are absolutely nothing to do with infoboxes, so unless a really, really anally retentive reading of the decision is wanted, common sense should just be to ignore this. Just to remind the committee, the probation was not, as the filer claims, "
Statement by CoretheappleThis is an in-your-face violation of sanctions just imposed. The fact that these are ad hominem makes them worse, not excusable. Enough already. I think that the time has come to indefinitely block this user. I disagree that a short block is warranted. Cassianto just doesn't care. We know that because he says so. His "defense" is that he didn't know about the restriction on his conduct. Next he'll say he is unaware of the outcome of this proceeding. and the next. His pals will chime in with wikilawyering. And on and on. How about we end this charade now? Coretheapple (talk) 20:15, 2 May 2018 (UTC) Reply to power-enwiki: You are correct that arbcom didn't indef, which was probably due to Cassianto's very wise decision to sit out the proceeding with a self-block. We have now heard from him, and seen his contempt for the whole process by word and action. So we can go through this same charade again and again, or it can be ended now. [Reply to Good Day] This would be, in other words, a preventive not a punitive block. Coretheapple (talk) 21:10, 2 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by power~enwikiThis situation (both the provocation by extremely new users, and the hostile responses by Cassianto) is exactly what the Infobox case should have solved. Accusations of sock-puppetry should be made at SPI (or at ANI if there's no way to determine who the master is), not on article talk pages. As Cassianto agrees there is a violation, pledges to avoid violations in the future, and doesn't seem to mind a block, I think a short block (24-72 hours) is sufficient. power~enwiki (π, ν) 20:08, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by GoodDayThe question is.... Would a block be a preventative measure or a punitive measure. I tend to believe the latter in this situation & so would recommend 'no blocking' on this occasion. GoodDay (talk) 20:38, 2 May 2018 (UTC) Statement by (username)Result concerning Cassianto
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Mhhossein
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Mhhossein
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Shrike (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 05:33, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Mhhossein (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_3#Motion:_ARBPIA_"consensus"_provision_modified :
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- 07:27, 2 May 2018 First introduction of tag
- 13:27, 2 May 2018 Second introduction of tag 24h have not passed yet.
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
- Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on [42]
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
- The article was protected [43] by USER:Courcelles as part of the conflict.The user refuse to selft revert [44].
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Mhhossein
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Mhhossein
The mentioned article is not under the remedy Shrike claims. Enforcing the WP:BLUELOCK as an attempt to have "extended confirmed protection" does not necessarily mean that the article is under ARBPIA. Regards. Nuclear program of Iran has nothing to do with the Arab world. --Mhhossein talk 05:51, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- Masem: Thanks for the intervention. This is related to Israel, but how can it be related to I/P or Israel-Arab area, considering that Iran is even not an Arab country and It's nuclear program has nothing to do with them? --Mhhossein talk 06:06, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- See these comments for clarification: [45], [46] and [47]. Regards. --Mhhossein talk 06:50, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- Icewhiz: Every article with the protection level of "extended confirmed falls under ARBPIA? Everything related to Israel falls under ARBPIA? Don't try to mix these unrelated things. What the hell does that alleged scientific project have to do with the Israel-Arab conflict?--Mhhossein talk 08:55, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- Icewhiz: You're wasting your energy if you think people will be misguided by that completely unrelated protection enhancement edit. I'm going to assume that you're trying to game the system by trying to pretend otherwise. "No, it doesn't - the Iran-Israel proxy conflict doesn't fall under ARBPIA, because it is not part of the Arab-Israeli conflict (Israel opposes Iran and it's allies, which are not part of the Arab League, while Israel in fact partially cooperates with the Arab League against Iran)." --Mhhossein talk 12:00, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Beyond My Ken: Let me reword your self interpretation: "...Yes, it is certainly true that United States (or UK) is not an Arab country but it opposes the "anti-Semitism", the description of a bias and prejudice against Jews, and not against all Semites. Similarly, United States is a well-known ally of Israel strongly supporting its existence. United States is not Arabic, but it is part of the "broadly interpreted" circumstance that the sanctions were intended to control. I would urge admins to take this into account, and not be so specific in their interpretation." So, every article related to Israel & US should be considered under the remedy since the United States is opposing the Arabs who oppose the existence of Israel. --Mhhossein talk 06:16, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Icewhiz
I asked Mhhossein to self revert, as did Shrike. As might be evident on his talk page - User talk:Mhhossein#Self revert request he refused, also after it was pointed out to him the article was placed on extended confirmed protection (500/30) due to ARBPIA.Icewhiz (talk) 06:57, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- As for the prior case involving Psychonot and Mhhossein at AE - that was on Ali Khamenei which is not inherently ARBPIA - as opposed to this article which is (including the POV tag which Mhhossein placed since per his words
"Netanyahu alleged that Iran for years operated a secret project known as Amad...
[48] - so Mhhossein has tied our article on this Iranian project (and POV thereof - this edit specifically) to to the Israeli prime minister.Icewhiz (talk) 07:01, 3 May 2018 (UTC)- @Mhhossein:, not every one, but this one [49] was placed by @Courcelles: as 500/30 due to what would seem to be ARBPIA. It would be great to have a clear clarification (if there isn't one already hidden somewhere) of whether the Israeli-Iranian conflict (which this article is obviously a part of) is part of ARBPIA. I think it should be (not because Iranians are Arab - they are not - but it is part of the same conflict in terms of topic area and the editing problems are the same) - and I at least have treated it as ARBPIA in my editing (whether or not there is an edit box or protection - which is present on many of the articles (so it seems that some admins, at least part of the time, seem to consider this ARBPIA).Icewhiz (talk) 09:06, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- While Iranians are not Arab, post-1979 Iran (particularly since 1988) has been heavily involved in the the Arab/Israeli conflict - supporting the Palestinian cause - particularly Islamist factions, supporting Hezbollah against Israel, etc. I suspect that the boundaries of ARBPIA should be taken up with Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment - as it seems there are differing interpretations here (also among admins placing protection / at AE). Presently - Iran is possibly the most significant state actor that is actively on the side of some Palestinian factions - and most of the on-going Iran–Israel proxy conflict involves Arab proxies.Icewhiz (talk) 07:03, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
- @Mhhossein:, not every one, but this one [49] was placed by @Courcelles: as 500/30 due to what would seem to be ARBPIA. It would be great to have a clear clarification (if there isn't one already hidden somewhere) of whether the Israeli-Iranian conflict (which this article is obviously a part of) is part of ARBPIA. I think it should be (not because Iranians are Arab - they are not - but it is part of the same conflict in terms of topic area and the editing problems are the same) - and I at least have treated it as ARBPIA in my editing (whether or not there is an edit box or protection - which is present on many of the articles (so it seems that some admins, at least part of the time, seem to consider this ARBPIA).Icewhiz (talk) 09:06, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Nishidani
I would only note,Masem, that some experienced editors on both 'sides' appear to be confused on this (Syria, hence all the more Iran) as per this remark.Nishidani (talk) 07:45, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Zero0000
Sandstein is perfectly correct that this is not part of the Arab-Israeli conflict, because Iran is not an Arab country. It is definitely not covered by ARBPIA. The complaint should be moved to somewhere else like ANI, but a single revert is unlikely to get much traction over there. Zerotalk 09:19, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by TheGracefulSlick
In the very same discussion Nishidani refers to, one editor says the Israel-Iran conflict does not fall under the Arab-Israeli conflict, and cites a 2013 discussion to support his assertion. Obviously, this is no clear-cut case and it would be unfair to punish anyone for something that clearly isn't understood by everyone. Had Shrike realized this, instead of piggybacking off Icewhiz's initial claim (as usual), we would not be here.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 13:30, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by K.e.coffman
The filing party has a history of initiating misguided reports. I was a subject of one of them at 3RRN last month, which closed as “no violation”: permalink. Perhaps, the filer should be cautioned to better understand policies and restrictions before filing reports at various noticeboards. K.e.coffman (talk) 01:02, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Beyond My Ken
While the opinions expressed by admins below that the article in question is not covered by the discretionary sanctions are quite reasonable, I think that the fact that the subject area is specifically to be "broadly interpreted" changes things somewhat. Yes, it is certainly true that Iran is not an Arab country, but it is also true that Arabs are Semites, and yet "anti-Semitism" is the description of a bias and prejudice against Jews, and not against all Semites. Similarly, Iran is part of the cauldron of the "Middle East" in which the countries all around Israel have taken up a strong opposition to its existence. Iran is not Arabic, but it is part of the "broadly interpreted" circumstance that the sanctions were intended to control. I would urge admins to take this into account, and not be so specific in their interpretation. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:43, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
- Mhhossein's reductio ad absurdum response to my comment is completely inapt, since the United States is not part of the Middle East and does not take an oppositional stance in regard to either the Arab world or Israel. The instructions in the ArbCom remedy says that the subject of the discretionary sanctions is to be "broadly interpreted", not that it is to be "ridiculously interpreted and stretched to the breaking point." Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:25, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by Seraphim System
Even if it was within the remedy, I think it is reasonable to assume good faith and take Mhhossein at his word that he did not believe it was within the remedy. The connection is attenuated enough that I think it would need to be discussed at ARCA and for editors to be made aware of it before it was actionable.Seraphim System (talk) 07:14, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning Mhhossein
- This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
- Given that Israel is claimed to have found evidence of this Iranian plan, and thus the basis of this article, it clearly is tied to the I/P area. Definitely a violation. --Masem (t) 06:02, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- If other admins feel that Iran falls outside I/P, then I'll accept that. I just consider that these have been typically broad, and given stories like this, we can't say that Iran is completely isolated from I/P. --Masem (t) 13:51, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- In my view, this is outside of the scope of the ARBPIA restrictions. The article at issue, Project Amad, is about an Iranian nuclear program which Israel considers a threat. Iran is not an Arab country. It does have a conflict with Israel, but that's not part of the Arab-Israeli conflict, which is what the restrictions apply to. Our article about the Arab-Israeli conflict mentions Iran only in passing. Sandstein 08:49, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
- I agree that this falls outside ARBPIA. "Arab-Israeli" doesn't mean the conflict involves one or the other, the scope is conflict between the two. Since Iran is not an Arabic country, conflict between it and Israel is not Arab-Israeli conflict. Seraphimblade Talk to me 01:43, 4 May 2018 (UTC)
- This is not the first time that the question of ARBPIA enforcement on Iranian-Israeli relations has come up. The response seems to have generally been that Iran is involved in the Arab-Israeli conflict, mainly through its proxies, but that this doesn't make every edit or article related to Iran-Israel relations subject to ARBPIA DS (compare this request with this one and this one and perhaps this one). In this case, I agree with others that Project Amad, while it is linked to Israel-Iran relations, is not related to the Arab-Israeli conflict and therefore not subject to 1RR. GoldenRing (talk) 08:57, 4 May 2018 (UTC)