Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions
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:Regarding the suggested removal of the rollback userright, I can't see where Darkness Shines has abused the [[WP:Rollback]] function (as separate from the [[WP:Twinkle]] rollback function), {{u|Sandstein}} have I missed something? The only uses I could find of [[WP:Rollback]] were either appropriate or accidental and subsequently self-reverted. In any case, if rollback is removed I think it would be better to remove it as a normal admin action rather than as a discretionary sanction. <b>[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]</b> ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 05:48, 13 May 2014 (UTC) |
:Regarding the suggested removal of the rollback userright, I can't see where Darkness Shines has abused the [[WP:Rollback]] function (as separate from the [[WP:Twinkle]] rollback function), {{u|Sandstein}} have I missed something? The only uses I could find of [[WP:Rollback]] were either appropriate or accidental and subsequently self-reverted. In any case, if rollback is removed I think it would be better to remove it as a normal admin action rather than as a discretionary sanction. <b>[[User:Callanecc|Callanecc]]</b> ([[User talk:Callanecc|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Callanecc|contribs]] • [[Special:Log/Callanecc|logs]]) 05:48, 13 May 2014 (UTC) |
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::You're right, the rollback was done with the user script Twinkle instead of with the standard rollback functionality, but that doesn't make it any more appropriate. It's an argument for removing Twinkle access too, though. Any opinions on Future Perfect at Sunrise's conduct? Considering that their history of past sanctions appears far less troublesome, I suggest that we should log a warning against edit-warring to Future Perfect at Sunrise only, and impose a block, rollback/Twinkle access removal and topic ban on Darkness Shines. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Sandstein|<font style="color:white;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Sandstein '''</font>]]</span></small> 21:58, 13 May 2014 (UTC) |
::You're right, the rollback was done with the user script Twinkle instead of with the standard rollback functionality, but that doesn't make it any more appropriate. It's an argument for removing Twinkle access too, though. Any opinions on Future Perfect at Sunrise's conduct? Considering that their history of past sanctions appears far less troublesome, I suggest that we should log a warning against edit-warring to Future Perfect at Sunrise only, and impose a block, rollback/Twinkle access removal and topic ban on Darkness Shines. <small><span style="border:1px solid black;padding:1px;">[[User:Sandstein|<font style="color:white;background:blue;font-family:sans-serif;">''' Sandstein '''</font>]]</span></small> 21:58, 13 May 2014 (UTC) |
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:::Are you fucking dense? FPAS has already [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rape_during_the_Bangladesh_Liberation_War&diff=608209138&oldid=608191860 continued] the edit war, 5 reverts, just outside the 24 hr mark, but sure fuck me over, after all, he is one of yours. [[User:Darkness Shines|Darkness Shines]] ([[User talk:Darkness Shines|talk]]) |
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==SPECIFICO== |
==SPECIFICO== |
Revision as of 22:07, 13 May 2014
For appeals: create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}
See also: Logged AE sanctions
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For all other problems, including content disagreements or the enforcement of community-imposed sanctions, please use the other fora described in the dispute resolution process. To appeal Arbitration Committee decisions, please use the clarification and amendment noticeboard. Only autoconfirmed users may file enforcement requests here; requests filed by IPs or accounts less than four days old or with less than 10 edits will be removed. All users are welcome to comment on requests except where doing so would violate an active restriction (such as an extended-confirmed restriction). If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. Enforcement requests and statements in response to them may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. (Word Count Tool) Statements must be made in separate sections. Non-compliant contributions may be removed or shortened by administrators. Disruptive contributions such as personal attacks, or groundless or vexatious complaints, may result in blocks or other sanctions. To make an enforcement request, click on the link above this box and supply all required information. Incomplete requests may be ignored. Requests reporting diffs older than one week may be declined as stale. To appeal a contentious topic restriction or other enforcement decision, please create a new section and use the template {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}}.
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76.107.171.90 and Barney the barney barney
Barney the barney barney is banned from interacting with Askahrc for two months. Sandstein 07:57, 11 May 2014 (UTC) | |||
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. | |||
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning 76.107.171.90 and Barney the barney barney
(Please forgive the slightly unusual format; these two editors both have a history of the same style of NPA toward me, often support one another, have been warned in the same AE previously and recently began attacking me at the same time, so it made sense to include them both)
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience#Discretionary sanctions
76.107.171.90 (talk) and Barney the barney barney have been sanctioned and repeatedly warned respectively for violating WP:CIVIL & WP:NPA toward me in the past. I have not pursued any interaction with either of them since then, but recently they have both begun making personal attacks and casting aspersions about my integrity, sexuality and mental health.
76 and Barney each have a history of personal attacks, vulgarity and casting aspersions. They've been directly warned/sanctioned about this numerous times and yet continue to attack myself and others. The Cap'n (talk) 06:53, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
@Liz & Sandstein, I am of the same opinion as Liz that these back and forths are wasting the community's time and not improving behavior. I have no desire to find excuses to get editors blocked, whether they dislike me or not, but I've tried ignoring these personal attacks and they only escalate and turn into canvassing efforts to get me banned. If I don't respond then my name, reputation and record get misrepresented, I get AN's pushed against me on the basis of easily falsifiable claims and risk getting banned from WP from PA's run amok. I am all for Liz & Sandstein's suggestion of interaction bans for those involved (76, Barney, plus possibly JzG and Vzaak). I honestly have no interest in harassing these editors, and if I knew they weren't actively trying to get me banned I'd never again have to spend an admin's time on these things. As I recommended in my AR, I think IBANs would dramatically decrease hostility, frivolous accusations and timewasting. The Cap'n (talk) 18:49, 7 May 2014 (UTC) @Hipocrite, the "screed" that is clearly in my name from several months back was a statement I provided to the owner of that site, of which I promptly posted notice on my Talk page for transparency (that's how most people know about it). In it I neither named or attacked any editors, but said that WP should not be about finding excuses to ban editors we disagree with. I reiterated throughout that I believed WP was better than POV hostility and would rise above this kind of squabbling. Not exactly the 95 Theses. Every one of the few other interactions I've had with that person was logged on my Talk page to demonstrate that I was not collaborating or endorsing him. After going through all that trouble to be overly transparent every step of the way, why would I then post materials on his site, not mention it, then deny involvement after the fact despite the fact it's obviously my content? Use a little logic, here. The Cap'n (talk) 19:02, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Discussion concerning 76.107.171.90
Discussion concerning Barney the barney barneyStatements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Barney the barney barneyThis is entirely frivolous complaint by Askahrc (talk · contribs) who has a history of filing such frivolous cases to the authorities. I stand by every comment I have made about Askahrc (talk · contribs) - but not those he has now repeatedly lied about, even after being corrected. To clarify for a second time: I do not believe that Askahrc (talk · contribs) is basically WP:COMPETENT to edit articles related to WP:FRINGE material, and in this assessment most users probably agree with me. Askahrc apparently believes he is competent, despite generally being in a minority of one. I suggest that this self-assessment is due to the Dunning–Kruger effect. This is not a mental illness. What is says is that those who are not competent to do something also tend to overestimate their competence to do that thing. I'd also like to clarify my opinion that Askahrc (talk · contribs) is only not capable of editing WP:FRINGE-related articles. It is important to note that these articles require more competence to edit than non-controversial articles. My statement about his lack of competence is specifically with this area in which a great deal of competence is indeed required. I'm not quite sure how Wikipedia can proceed if an assessment of a user's competence is now to be construed as a personal attack. Ironically, given this attempt at enforcement, my opinion was intended to prevent askahrc (talk · contribs) from trying to implement what he'd regard as "mediation" between those who are sceptical of WP:FRINGE theories (in line with the WP:MAINSTREAM point of view) and those who are very much in favour of them. From my experience with Rupert Sheldrake, he'd be extremely arrogant and patronising, selectively ignore Wikipedia policy, try to impose his own views, and generally create entirely unnecessary WP:DRAMA. In my opinion, Askahrc (talk · contribs) is basically a troll, who like others is anti-WP:FRINGE and anti-Wikipedia. WP:NOTHERE is appropriate. Vzaak (talk · contribs) has shown his attempts to use sockpuppets to troll.
Statement by JzGPrior discussions involving the filing party:
That's not bad for a user with fewer than 300 mainspace edits in over five years as a registered user. The filing party also neglected to mention the fact that he was found using sockpuppets to attack Barney the barney barney, one of the two accounts against whom he requests sanctions. (Note: Taken on trust from prior discussions, I'm digging for diffs; false claims have also been made against Askahrc in the past). I find this user's behaviour vexing. As Barney suggests, he is engaging himself in complex and difficult disputes around an area where he shows a clear lack of understanding (or perhaps outright rejection) of Wikipedia policy. Having been involved at the Rupert Sheldrake (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) article, Askahrc then presents himself as a neutral mediator at Deepak Chopra (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). Chopra is a prominent supporter of Sheldrake, and vice-versa. Tim Farley analysed his editing pattern and found him to be one of a small group of people engaged in this area, whose involvement is heavily skewed towards meta-debate not content editing: [1]. The other partisans included Alfonzo Green (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), Barleybannocks (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) and Tumbleman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). This seems to me to be a group of editors who have decided to Right Great Wrongs by redressing the "balance" against fringe and pseudoscientific claims, primarily related to Sheldrake, IMO. What we do not need is editors with virtually no article editing experience, asserting themselves to be mediators in contentious biographies. The Chopra article at the moment is subject to long walls of text from a user representing the Chopra media office, now is not a good time for the well intentioned but seriously inexperienced (the most charitable interpretation, the Dunning-Kruger effect), and it's a terrible time for a troll, which is what I am afraid I think Askahrc is. Lack of competence, lack of experience, deliberate mischief, failure to accept Wikipedia policy - whatever the problem, I think this is a user who needs ot keep away form biographies related to fringe topics, and possibly from all fringe and pseudoscience. Guy (Help!) 12:03, 7 May 2014 (UTC) @Sandstein: feel free to point out what is insulting about this, I am merely pointing out the facts as I see them. This is a user who presents himself as a potential mediator, with fewer than 300 mainspace edits and a history of dispute on contentious articles. He does not understand Wikipedia well enough to understand why this is a problem, does not understand why involvement on the Sheldrake article is equivalent to involvement in the Chopra article (i.e. WP:COMPETENCE) and the sockpuppetry speaks for itself. I find his behaviour, as I say, vexing. In what way is that not a civil way of stating the issue? As I say, I am open to the possibility that this is well-intentioned, but it must be said that there is an appearance of trolling, in the classic sense of the term. This user has stated an agenda against WP:FRINGE and in favour of a more sympathetic treatment of an advocate of fringe science (and in the process a rather banned user) [2], now removed from the original. If that's OK by everyone then I will forget about it, no problem. What I see is someone who was marginally active for a long time then became very active in talk space just when Sheldrake started pressing for more sympathetic (and less NPOV) coverage. It sets the spidey-senses tingling. And yes, it's easy to misjudge in these cases, but it's also easy to AGF to excess. Is there a difference between a lengthy description of behaviour that may justly be represented as, at the very least, a red flag, accompanied by a very brief and clearly identified expression of personal opinion, and a blatant attack? I think there might be. Remember: we are talking about articles here that have, for a long time, seen a steady stream of newly interested and/or new users all advancing the same POV. Those of us who bother to watch them would appreciate more eyes, it would materially improve the burnout rate. Guy (Help!) 16:47, 7 May 2014 (UTC) Statement by NomoskedasticitySandstein is grossly mistaken in believing that it is a "personal attack" (and therefore prohibited) to observe that another editor is incompetent or even grossly incompetent. Some editors are indeed incompetent and cause no end of trouble at Wikipedia. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 12:43, 7 May 2014 (UTC) Statement by Roxy the dogAlthough the sanctions imposed by Sandstein on 76.107.171.90 may well be covered by a liberal interpretation of the policies and guidelines of wikipedia, they are way outside the spirit of them, and should be reconsidered. It is the worst, most unjustified, admin action I have seen, in my admittedly limited experience here. -Roxy the dog (resonate) 15:13, 7 May 2014 (UTC) Statement by LizI have also been attacked by Barney, right in an arbitration request and elsewhere, but I'm not filing a complaint or adding it to this one. It is Barney's habit to treat those he doesn't respect with caustic disdain. I'm not sure if a block will change this kind of attitude. What is more troubling is to see all of the claims and counterclaims between @76, Vzaak, The Cap'n, Barney and sometimes Guy on AN/I, AN and A/R/E. It's ridiculous for editors to look for reasons to get other editors blocked and then the second editor to file a similar complaint against the first editor another week later for harassment. I know it must be tiresome for admins to see these same parties mentioned in a complaint, in a tit-for-tat series. This needs to stop and it shouldn't be stopped by trying to get other users indefinitely blocked from Wikipedia. It would be preferable for all editors working on topics that fall under the pseudoscience area to not "track" each other's edits and give each other a wide berth. If that is not possible because of similar interests, it is important to remember civility even when an editor questions another's competence. To repeat the fourth pillar of Wikipedia:
I know that every editor is aware of these words but they speak directly to the issue of respecting other editors, whether or not you agree with their position. The fourth pillar doesn't allow for exceptions for pseudoscience or Eastern Europe or Israel/Palestine, in fact, one can make a good argument that in these contentious topics, civility is even more important than in areas where there is less conflict. Liz Read! Talk! 13:29, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Statement by User:HipocriteBarney, don't you get it? Wikipedia doesn't care if you are collaborating off wiki with a banned user to insult and harass editors here [3]. It doesn't care if you are creating strawman sockpuppeets to try to further your side in a dispute by making your opposition look weird [4]. It cares ONLY, and I repeat this ONLY that you do not, under any circumstances, make anyone feel even a little bad - unless, of course, you are a complete fringe lunatic - then you can make people who have spent countless hours trying to make an encyclopedia useful and accurate waste countless hours because we wouldn't dare get rid of someone who was new! Now, apologize for saying that Askahrc was generally incompetent, and proceed on with ignoring everything he says while waiting for him to make a mistake large enough (like sockpuppeting again) that you can civilly report his completely disruptive actions. Thanks! Hipocrite (talk) 16:33, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Statement by CardamonThe term Dunning–Kruger effect does not refer to either a "mental impairment" or a "mental illness". Our article on this is good enough that this should be apparent to people who read the article. Cardamon (talk) 22:57, 7 May 2014 (UTC) Statement by vzaak
Statement by (username)Result concerning Barney the barney barneyThis section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. The request has merit. While the comments by Barney the barney barney at issue and on this page do not allege a mental illness on the part of Askahrc, they are noneless insulting, in that they call Askahrc "a troll", "anti-Wikipedia" and grossly incompetent. Such conduct is prohibited, see WP:NPA. Editors are expected to avoid personalizing disputes and to focus discussions on article content and sources, rather than on the persons of others. Barney the barney barney did the opposite here. I recall that Barney the barney barney has twice been warned against similar misconduct, in December 2013 by me and in April 2014 by Callanecc. The edits are within the scope of the Pseudoscience discretionary sanctions because they were made in a WP:ANI discussion about conduct regarding the article Deepak Chopra, which is concerned with issues related to pseudo- or fringe science. I am of the view that Barney the barney barney should be banned from interacting with Askahrc. Because the statement by JzG above is similar in (insulting) substance to that of Barney the barney barney, if somewhat more moderate in tone, I am also considering whether a similar sanction would be appropriate with regard to JzG. What do others think?As to the allegations by Barney the barney barney and JzG regarding misconduct by Askahrc, they are merely assertions without evidence, and are therefore, in my view, disruptive rather than useful. Sandstein 12:15, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
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Darkness Shines
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning Darkness Shines
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Future Perfect at Sunrise (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 12:42, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- Darkness Shines (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- WP:ARBIPA#Discretionary sanctions
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- Personal attacks and incivility:
- Edit-warring:
- 9 May, 16:07
- 9 May, 16:39
- 9 May, 16:50 (rv-warring an obviously unreliable source back into the article, abusing Twinkle rollback, no edit-summary)
- 11 May, 13:06 (same unreliable source again)
- 12 May, 08:29 (another instantaneous blanket revert without edit-summary, abusing Twinkle rollback)
- 12 May, 08:26 (instantaneous rv without edit summary or discussion, baseless accusation of "stalking")
- 12 May, 11:43 (yet another instantaneous blanket rv, again abusing Twinkle rollback.)
- Forum-shopping and refusal to get the point at WP:RSN: [18] filing case without acknowledging or even mentioning prior discussion, WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT insistence on re-introducing obviously unsuitable source
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- Has had 18(!) prior blocks between January 2012 and December 2013, all for personal attacks and/or edit-warring
- Last AE thread about India-Pakistan topics resulted in a "final warning" against any further "edit warring or other inappropriate interaction" [19]. *Current revert-limitation in another discretionary-sanction topic area [20].
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Apparently, Darkness Shines has somehow got the idea into his mind that he can make "his" articles immune from criticism and scrutiny from me, by simply defining any edit I make to them as "stalking". He has even gone so far as to shop admins to demand an "interaction ban" for me [22].
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
Discussion concerning Darkness Shines
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by Darkness Shines
On 28 July 2012 I asked FPAS to stop hounding me, he refused to. Calling a self admitted stalker a stalker is not a PA, it is a cold hard fact. FPAS also seems to forget it takes two to edit war, he was removing reliably cited content from the Davis article which I restored. The accusation of forum shopping is a joke, when an editor says a source is unreliable then it goes to the RSN board, that is normal practice. Saying fuck off is not against any policy I know of, wikipedia is not censored. I requested an IBAN before at AN, and I request an IBAN now, all FPAS ever does is leave snarky edit summaries directed at me. This has been going on for years and this filing is just another aspect of harassment and the battlefield approach to editing that FPAS has towards any editor he falls out with. Darkness Shines (talk) 17:43, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
Statement by Calypsomusic
I have seen many examples of the same and worse behaviour.
- Personal Attacks:
- Says editor "is being a cunt"
- Calls an admin "fucking dense" and a "tit" only because the admin closed an AFD as "keep" when DS wanted "delete".
DS later apologized after being criticized, however, an editor who is reporting other editors (who have also apologized) for alleged personal attacks for sanctions should know better. --Calypsomusic (talk) 09:26, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Statement on FUCKING OFF by Hipocrite
"FUCK OFF" is not incivil, per precedent. Anyone who blocks users for telling others to FUCK OFF need to review the following: [24], and take appropriate action. Hipocrite (talk) 20:28, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Result concerning Darkness Shines
This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
The request is justified. The evidence submitted shows that Darkness Shines has engaged in edit-warring and personal attacks, and has abused the rollback facility. The complaint also highlights Darkness Shines's stupendously long list of blocks and their relatively recent warning by an administrator on this noticeboard.
It is also significant that the statement by Darkness Shines shows no understanding of how problematic their editing is. By replying "Saying fuck off is not against any policy I know of, wikipedia is not censored", they confuse the policy WP:CENSORED, which governs article content, with the policy WP:NPA, which governs conduct among editors, and does in fact prohibit personal attacks such as the ones at issue here. Such errors are of high concern in an editor with 25925 edits and that long a list of blocks for misconduct, and indicate to me that little short of an indefinite block may prevent further misconduct of this sort by Darkness Shines.
What's more, Darkness Shines has not only edit-warred, but has done so to add text that misrepresents the cited source. In the edit [25] and subsequent reverts, Darkness Shines introduces the text "the commonly cited figure of 200,000 [rapes]" to replace the text "commonly cited figures", which is attributed to Dr. Geoffrey Davis quoted in the source "D'Costa 2010a" The earlier text correctly represents Dr. Davis's statement in the source, but the number of 200,000, which Darkness Shines has edit-warred to add, is not found in the cited source.
In my view, this makes clear that Darkness Shines cannot be relied upon to edit contentious and sensitive topics responsibly, and that a topic ban (at the least) is indicated, as well as removal of the rollback permission. I invite comments by others as to what the scope of that topic ban should be, and why. Under these circumstances, it is not necessary to determine whether, as the complainant alleges, that a source used by Darkness Shines is obviously unreliable, or whether Darkness Shines has engaged in other misconduct.
We must however also consider that the complainant, Future Perfect at Sunrise, has been the other party in these edit wars, and that as an administrator they should know even better that edit-warring is not permitted. I would appreciate comments by others as to which, if any, sanction is indicated with regard to Future Perfect at Sunrise. Sandstein 18:27, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
- If a content matter is under long-term dispute it is understandable that Future Perfect would take a continuing interest; that should not be described as 'stalking'. It is hard to see that DS is following a path of patient discussion that will lead to a negotiated solution on this. The disagreement has been going on since 2012. On the whole, nobody seems to have found a good response to FP's claim that Davis did not use the number 200,000 in the interview reported by D'Costa in 2010. (Her article on the interview does not contain the number 200,000). At first glance it seems like a minor rewording would avoid the possibility of any WP:SYNTH; it seems that DS is not open to this. (The editors might agree to cite the 200,000 figure to another source, and then report Davis's view in a different sentence). Sandstein gives a good summary of the problem. It shows poor judgment on the part of DS to give us such a vivid example of battleground editing in his response to this complaint. Since a previous AE warned Darkness Shines that his future behavior would be closely watched, I think this takes it over the line. I do not yet see the case for an indefinite block, but think that other possibilities should be considered, including a topic ban and removal of rollback. EdJohnston (talk) 18:42, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
- I think the two summaries above are indicative of a problem which does need to be dealt with, especially given the prior warning, edit warring, battleground behaviour and personal attacks and Darkness Shines's comment that "Saying fuck off is not against any policy I know of" indicating that they don't understand a core conduct requirement.
- After reading the request, the evidence presented with it as well as some other contribs and prior warnings/discussions after blocks my opinion is that a block (of at least two months) would be in order as well as topic ban. The reason I suggest a block is that the discretionary sanctions remedy requires us "to create an acceptable collaborative editing environment", I believe that Darkness Shines continuing to edit war, make personal attacks, and not understand that they can't say fuck off requires us to remove them from the general editing environment so that they develop a deeper understanding of policies and guidelines - primarily WP:Edit warring (see complaint) and WP:No personal attacks (see complaint and the quote I mentioned above).
- Regarding the suggested removal of the rollback userright, I can't see where Darkness Shines has abused the WP:Rollback function (as separate from the WP:Twinkle rollback function), Sandstein have I missed something? The only uses I could find of WP:Rollback were either appropriate or accidental and subsequently self-reverted. In any case, if rollback is removed I think it would be better to remove it as a normal admin action rather than as a discretionary sanction. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:48, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
- You're right, the rollback was done with the user script Twinkle instead of with the standard rollback functionality, but that doesn't make it any more appropriate. It's an argument for removing Twinkle access too, though. Any opinions on Future Perfect at Sunrise's conduct? Considering that their history of past sanctions appears far less troublesome, I suggest that we should log a warning against edit-warring to Future Perfect at Sunrise only, and impose a block, rollback/Twinkle access removal and topic ban on Darkness Shines. Sandstein 21:58, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
- Are you fucking dense? FPAS has already continued the edit war, 5 reverts, just outside the 24 hr mark, but sure fuck me over, after all, he is one of yours. Darkness Shines (talk)
- You're right, the rollback was done with the user script Twinkle instead of with the standard rollback functionality, but that doesn't make it any more appropriate. It's an argument for removing Twinkle access too, though. Any opinions on Future Perfect at Sunrise's conduct? Considering that their history of past sanctions appears far less troublesome, I suggest that we should log a warning against edit-warring to Future Perfect at Sunrise only, and impose a block, rollback/Twinkle access removal and topic ban on Darkness Shines. Sandstein 21:58, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
SPECIFICO
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Request concerning SPECIFICO
- User who is submitting this request for enforcement
- Netoholic (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 05:03, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
- User against whom enforcement is requested
- SPECIFICO (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log
- Sanction or remedy to be enforced
- Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Austrian_economics#SPECIFICO_topic-banned :
- Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
- May 12 Stephan Molyneux is a person broadly associated with the Ludwig von Mises Institute. A quote from the editor of Mises.org is in the lead paragraph, the subjects books have been discussed on the site many times, and he appears on the Mises Wiki.
- May 9[26][27][28] SPECIFICO made several edits to the same article a couple days ago, and was informed on May 9 that the subject of this article falls within his topic ban.
- May 10 Edited Bryan Caplan, a person who is broadly associated with LvMI as noted in this message to SPECIFICO warning him of the subjects connection by User:Srich32977.
- Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
- [http://Difflink1 Date] Explanation
- [http://Difflink2 Date] Explanation
- If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
- Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above.
- Additional comments by editor filing complaint
Based on a quick look at other aspects of his editing activity and talk page conversations, I feel like this editor might be becoming hostile with regards to articles right on the fringe of his topic ban, almost as if he is testing to see where the electric fence is rather than making an effort to broaden his editing activities to other areas. -- Netoholic @ 05:03, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
I guess I need to add some additional clarification onto the initial request, since it sounds like we have very different understandings of what "associated with" means. Molyneux has interacted quite frequently with members of the Mises Institute staff, and so I would qualify that as "associated with" the Mises Institute. SPECIFIC was topic-banned in order to prevent him from editing about the LvMI and its staff because he's shown a significant bias *against* them, and so now what he's doing is editing articles of people who are connected with the staff, in order to try and show them a negative light. Some prominent interactions between Molyneux and Mises staff: interviewed by Redmond Weisenberger of Mises Canada, interview with Senior Fellow Walter block, several interviews with Jeffrey Tucker, recently left as editor of mises.org[29][30], interviews with Senior Fellow Tom Woods[31], interaction with Senior Fellow David Gordon, and much more which I can provide if needed. So what does " topic-banned from editing articles and other pages relating to the Ludwig von Mises Institute or persons associated with it" mean if it doesn't apply to a person that associates with senior leadership of the Institute? -- Netoholic @ 06:15, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
- Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested
User was notified. --Netoholic @ 05:05, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Discussion concerning SPECIFICO
Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.
Statement by SPECIFICO
Statement by S.Rich
I will let Specifico post the diffs regarding an earlier notification and its' resolution. IMO the article on Molyneux is not a Mises.org-related topic. What others may have posted about Molyneux on the Mises.org website is their business, but having done so does not make Molyneuz a Mises.org related person. (Please note that I have absolutely no affection or alliance with Specifico. I posted evidence against him during the Arbcom. And I posted the notice to him about Caplan as a Mises.org related person) -– S. Rich (talk) 05:21, 13 May 2014 (UTC)05:40, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
@Volunteer Marek: It is not a big deal, but Caplan is associated with Mises.org. See: [32]. He published in the Mises.org journal Quarterly Journal of Austrian Economics. (This is the opposite of them posting some of his stuff, he submitted it for publication.) I don't disagree with the edit that Specifico did (following my lead in removing "influenced" names from the infobox), but TBANs include the good edits, the bad edits, and the ugly edits. So, bottom line, the Molyneux edits do not violate the TBAN and Specifico has been properly notified re Caplan. – S. Rich (talk) 05:57, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
@Volunteer Marek: Given the two admin comments below, it's water under the dam or over the bridge by now. But I do see where Caplan did an original posting at Writing on the Wall. This is more than a passive involvement with Mises.org. Again, no big deal. I posted the notice re Caplan and I certainly did not want it to become part of a very weak case for arbcom enforcement. I seriously doubt that Specifico's name will show up here again. – S. Rich (talk) 06:28, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Statement by Volunteer Marek
I'm pretty sure that at least Bryan Caplan is NOT associated with the von Mises Institute (in a way this sort of clinches it). They just put up some of his writings on their website. The only link of the Bryan Caplan article to vMI is a single External Link. The edit by SPECIFICO in question [33] also falls under WP:BLP and was a good edit.Volunteer Marek (talk) 05:44, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
I'm not as familiar with this Stephan Molyneux fellah but the link there to vMI also appears pretty weak. So they wrote about him in their Wiki. So what?
More generally, it should be kept in mind that the topic ban is in regard to the von Mises Institute and not from Economics in general, or even Liberterianism or even Austrian economics in general. Of course by a sort of six-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon any economist can be "linked" to vMI through a few steps. But I note that the topic ban remedy explicitly *excludes* Austrian economics.Volunteer Marek (talk) 05:48, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
- @S.Rich - I don't think publishing in QJAE is sufficient to consider somebody as "associated" with vMI. Note also that the Caplan article you link to, as well as his other QJAE article "Probability, Common Sense, and Realism: A Reply to Hülsmann and Block" were replies to other articles. The original article which seemed to start this intellectual conversation was "The Austrian Search for Realistic Foundations" which was published in the Southern Economic Journal which has no affiliation with vMI. What happened here (I'm pretty, though not 100% sure) is that Caplan published an article on Austrian economics somewhere else, a couple vMI folks wrote about it in QJAE and then QJAE gave Caplan a chance to respond, as is often done in such cases.
- Basically, no association with vMI.Volunteer Marek (talk) 06:19, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
- And this: but Caplan is associated with Mises.org. See: [31] - that just shows that they wrote him up on their Wiki, same as Molyneux.Volunteer Marek (talk) 06:27, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Statement by Carolmooredc
I've already been counseled privately that I should not play games with my topic ban by quoting Murray Rothbard or other Austrian economists on purely political topics in overwhelming political articles. Therefore I have to wonder about SPECIFICO's topic ban being narrowly construed to what he continues to assert it is: "official members" of the Mises.org/faculty as listed there. So he can continue the biased editing of bios of those who aren't on that list? Biased editing got him the topic ban, remember.
For example, at this edit SPECIFICO removed info about Peter Schiff who is not a faculty member but a search of Mises.org shows he does events for them, writes for them and is promoted by some of their other writers. SPECIFICO worked a lot on the Schiff article in the past so he should know that. Moreover, his edits already are starting conflicts over BLPs, which is why this Austrian Economics Arbitration happened in the first place. If I am to be broadly construed because I lost my temper with biased editing that Admins refused to deal with despite numerous complaints from several editors, I'd like to see others' topic bans also broadly construed so they do not continue biased editing which causes conflicts. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 14:45, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Statement by (username)
Result concerning SPECIFICO
This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
The persons at issue have, according to the complaint, all been mentioned or covered by this institute repeatedly, and one of them has published in a journal published by the institute. I don't quite see, yet, how this adds up to them being associated with the institute, even broadly construed. As such, I don't yet see how these edits are wirhin the scope of the topic ban. Sandstein 05:24, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
- I agree with Sandstein on this one, I don't see that any of the diffs presented breach the topic ban and I don't see misconduct which would warrant extending the sanction as mentioned in the final decision. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:59, 13 May 2014 (UTC)