Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 September 2: Difference between revisions

File:Karin van der Laag (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (article|XfD|restore)

Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:45, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maria Antònia Mínguez (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

Procedurally, this was a bad close, regardless of the outcome. As the AfD nominator, I do not feel a need to relist, but I do feel that the irregularities and some concerning factors about the close should be reviewed.

1. The AfD was closed as keep. The closer had previously relisted for more input, and the only input after this was a reasoned !vote for a non-keep outcome.
2. The close gave no reason or explanation for the decision.
   1. No reason is bad form, and worse when the article being XfD'd is a BLP with additional copyvio and privacy concerns, which were also not acknowledged in the close.
3. The close suggested having effectively the same discussion at the article talkpage; if the closer believed this was the best course of action, then "no consensus" is surely the close decision that would be taken.
4. When challenged on the lack of reasoning in the close decision, the closer gave reasons which I find not only unconvincing, but somewhat concerning:
   1. Admitting to merely vote-counting. Besides ignoring the quality of reasons and policy adherence, this is particularly bad when there are only a handful of !votes, including some qualified or with no reason.
   2. Suggesting that they have bias towards a certain user's opinion. The user in question was the main advocate for keep, the decision the closer took. Kingsif (talk) 00:40, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: after being notified, the closer is currently passive-agressively deleting drafts I (and only I) created. Kingsif (talk) 00:55, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I don't see how you got vote counting from my statement I saw more support for Keep than Delete or Redirect. Maybe I didn't word this correctly but the support I meant was reading the arguments, not just counting votes. As for my alleged "bias", it was because I stated to Kingsif on my User talk page that I respect the opinions of all of the editors arguing to Keep, especially Cielquiparle who typically works to improve sourcing on articles whose AFDs they participates in.. I don't think that indicates that I'll close a discussion however Cielquiparle votes (I'm sure we have disagreed plenty of times), just that I respected their opinion. I think it's unrealistic to expect that a closer doesn't pay any attention to whom is voicing an argument, that we are "editor-blind". There are editors whose opinion I respect on sports topics or business topics because they regularly offer solid arguments. Cunard digs up sources that no one else can locate, Cielquiparle usually improves an article during an AFD. I take some editors' arguments more seriously than an IP editor who just showed up to express an opinion. If I get some flak for that, well I don't know how to ignore that some editors are very competent and reliable and I take their opinions seriously. It doesn't mean I didn't take the opinions of other editors in the discussion seriously, Kingsif asked me to justify my closure and I thought it best to be honest.
• As for your drafts, they are eligible for CSD G13, if you look at the date of the last human edit, I delete CSD G13s all day long, it has nothing to do with this inquiry. A head's up, Draft:List of winning streaks in volleyball is due for CSD G13 in the next hour. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:15, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I know the drafts are eligible for G13, something a bot usually handles. If you can honestly deny that this didn't inspire you to look into the draft dump pile for anything with my name on it, I'll strike that, but I checked to see if you were just on a regular deletion spree and you weren't.

  I would challenge your assertion that Cielquiparle is very competent and reliable based on the "improvements" they made to the article and the sources/comments on sources they presented during the AfD, but we're not here to discuss the competency of other users - so I will just challenge that while closers cannot be expected to be assessing like some blank slate, they should not be (as you honestly, which, thanks, are) elevating one opinion above others because of who made it, when the other opinions may in themselves be equally or more valid. If a closer is going to effectively trust one user's take on something rather than assessing for themselves, that creates a massive judgement issue. Additionally, I didn't mean to suggest you would just close in line with Cielquiparle, but that you very much admitted that you respect their opinions more than you do others, and that can create bias.

  Of course, I was concerned enough with points 1 through 3 initially that I asked for an explanation, and I feel that what you provided was neither satisfactory in addressing the whole AfD (indeed, still no comments on source quality, on notability policy, on copyvio), nor did it indicate why there was no initial close reason. Kingsif (talk) 02:48, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Endorse this was a very easy AfD to close as there was little opposition against keeping and anything else would have been a supervote. Furthermore, Earwig didn't show any copyvio issues, I also don't see anything wrong with Liz's response or close. If anything I'm surprised it was nominated for deletion at all based on the available sourcing. SportingFlyer T·C 06:16, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  There were two redirect votes, and two keep votes, I genuinely don't know what you're looking at to see otherwise. The nom explains the copyvio is machine translated, which anyone who looked at the sources (none of which are notability-establishing) and noticed they weren't in English would surely realise. Kingsif (talk) 13:06, 2 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]