Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aquaveo: Difference between revisions

Aquaveo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NCOMPANY – a small, privately held company (LLC), occupying a small office somewhere in Utah, US[1] and producing niche software. Article only includes affiliated references or ones that don't even mention the company's name, proving perhaps that the company exists but falling short of offering evidence of its encyclopaedic notability. Accounts of article creator and contributors have been alleged to be affiliated with the company. (Redacted) — kashmīrī ^TALK 16:52, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Companies and Software. — kashmīrī ^TALK 16:52, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Environment and Utah. Skynxnex (talk) 17:06, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: I don't know about the creator of the article, or any of the other contributors, but I haven't ever been paid to work on the article. It's just found within one of many topics I find interesting (I've edited a fair number of river and lake articles over the years, and Aquaveo's software is used by a lot of people writing academic papers analyzing rivers and lakes). All of my contributions have been working to improve the article by adding references, removing marketing speak, and expanding it based on references I found (pretty much what I do for every other article I work on). As it stands right now, it's pretty much on the border of notability, and it could go either way. The Deseret News article is definitely a solid source. As the nom noted, most of the others are more informational references that (taken together) might push it over into notability, but also may not. So, I could go either way. If it is decided to delete the article, I'd request it be userfied so I can work on it. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 16:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I should also note that being small, privately-held, in Utah, and producing niche software do not, in and of themselves, disqualify any company per WP:COMPANY. Those attributes are irrelevant to notability. As my previous comment noted, the only thing relevant is whether the company has been given significant coverage in multiple, third-party (independent) secondary sources. The Deseret News article is one such source. None of the others used in the article are likely helpful there. So, at least one additional such source would likely need to be found. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 18:18, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  It has to be asked whether Deseret, a single reference from 2016 1999, is a sufficient evidence of WP:SUSTAINED notability; especially that it... does not mention Aquaveo. I guess the argument will be that it's insufficient. Please note that this is an article about a company and its notability per WP:NCOMPANY, not about any of its products which may or may not be notable per WP:NSOFTWARE. — kashmīrī ^TALK 19:11, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The Deseret News article talks about "Environmental Modeling Systems", which is a previous name of Aquaveo, as mentioned in the article here. "Environmental Modeling Systems" isn't a product, but a former company name. I made no comments about its products, so please don't try to put words in my mouth. I'm very well aware that notable products don't equate to notable companies. And I never argued that a single reference in DN is sufficient evidence to make Aquaveo notable (in fact, I said the opposite). ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 19:19, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  OK, the 25-year-old article in local newspaper indeed mentions Environmental Modeling Systems, i.e., the business that was taken over by Aquaveo a decade later. Wikipedia still needs sources on Auqaveo specifically that would offer evidence of in-depth, lasting coverage of the company. Will you be able to find them? — kashmīrī ^TALK 19:45, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  As far as I can tell, EMS wasn't taken over, but rather became Aquaveo since, as far as I can tell, everyone who was working with EMS went on to work at Aquaveo and EMS ceased to exist when Aquaveo started up. As for "Will you be able to find them?", it's not on only me to find sources. I'm not even arguing one way or another. However, as nominator, it's on you to do your due diligence to make sure there aren't any articles or other reliable, third-party sources that could be used in the article. I've already given you my thoughts (only the DN article helps toward establishing notability). Please stop harassing me, especially when I'm not even necessarily disagreeing with you. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 20:06, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Nihonjoe: Please note that on the English Wikipedia, Harrasment is covered by policy. It is strictly defined and not necessarily synonymous with broader global English-language usage. If you think Kashmiri has harassed you, then WP:DWH applies; dispute resolution is suggested. Conversely, WP:AOHA also states that, Making accusations of harassment can be inflammatory... It can be seen as a personal attack if harassment is alleged without clear evidence that the others' action is actually harassment. So, moving forward, please lodge your accusations against Kashmiri at a noticeboard, or retract them as unfounded. Perhaps an apology is in order; your conscience must dictate. Happy editing! ——Serial 20:20, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Do you have a source for "everyone who was working with EMS went on to work at Aquaveo and EMS ceased to exist when Aquaveo started up"? This needs verification and please see WP:BURDEN. - The literary leader of the age ✉ 23:05, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  As I wrote above, As far as I can tell.... The few people mentioned as working at EMS in the DN article (and anything else I've found) also worked at Aquaveo when it first started. My comments certainly do not need sources as they are my own comments. WP:BURDEN applies to articles, not discussions such as this since I'm not claiming anything that needs any sort of proof. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 23:17, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I haven't ever been paid to work on the article @Nihonjoe: I don't think that was exactly the question. It's relevant to the outcome of the AfD, so I'm going to ask you directly: Are you, or have you ever been, employed by Aquaveo? Sojourner in the earth (talk) 21:30, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Yes, though not until well after I made the majority of my edits there. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 22:10, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks for confirming. Sort of dead end if the article ends up userfied... — kashmīrī ^TALK 22:19, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  There has been an off-wiki challenge of this timeline. You might want to revisit that, just in case. Carrite (talk) 04:36, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I feel like this topic would be best discussed with @PhilKnight: or the arbcom email instead of on a public articles for deletion page. Sagflaps (talk) 18:51, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Also, just a general note, significant contributions to Aquaveo and related hydrology software WMS (hydrology software) have been made by @Edit42: and @42of8:, though it appears neither account is active. Sagflaps (talk) 20:46, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Nihonjoe Would you be able to provide the approximate date when your COI started if you recall it? Thanks :) — kashmīrī ^TALK 21:16, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  No. I don't think it' appropriate for you to be digging into my personal life, thank you. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 21:43, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete (or userfy per Nihonjoe's request). The Deseret News source is decent, but I can't find any additional sources that I'd consider as contributing to notability. I've tried searching under all the company's previous names. Also tried searching newspaper archives; the only result was this passing mention (TWL access only). I'm open to reconsidering if better sources are found. Sojourner in the earth (talk) 21:23, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Fails WP:NCORP, which requires multiple significant and reliable sources. I tried looking under both company names and could not find any other than the Deseret News one. popodameron ⁠talk 22:28, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Only one source potentially contributes to notability here and it's about another company that was taken over by the subject company. Fails WP:NCORP and WP:SUSTAINED. - The literary leader of the age ✉ 23:07, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]