Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Alpine ibex/archive1: Difference between revisions

Alpine ibex

Alpine ibex (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

• Featured article candidates/Alpine ibex/archive1

Nominator(s): LittleJerry (talk) 23:19, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I brought this article to GA ten years ago and recently expanded it, added more sources and got a peer review. How about it? LittleJerry (talk) 23:19, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

• Suggest adding alt text

• File:Leefgebied_alpensteenbok.JPG: what is the source of the data presented? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:57, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

replaced LittleJerry (talk) 19:34, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

FM

• I was the one who GA reviewed it 10 years ago, so I'll see what has happened in the meantime. FunkMonk (talk) 19:26, 6 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
• At first glance, I see a lot of modern countries linked, which should removed per WP:overlink. Italy is even linked twice.

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 00:24, 7 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• I agree with the point below that the single paragraph naming section is too short (single paragraph sections are discouraged), it should be merged into taxonomy as a paragraph.

It doesn't fit in taxonomy.

It's there in most other featured animal article, so should be fine here too. FunkMonk (talk) 21:32, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 15:34, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• "Ibex on the wall of a dam licking minerals" Since this is a man-made object, could be interesting for context to state where it is.

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:09, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• "Biologist transporting an ibex" Likewise, the Commons description also states it is carried for reintroduction, context which should be added to the caption.

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 17:09, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• link Miocene and Pliocene.

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:09, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• "along with the Iberian ibex" give its binomial in parenthesis like you do with the other species mentioned right after.

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:09, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• "The following cladogram is based on mitochondrial evidence:" Give date for this and other genetic studies cited for context.

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:26, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• Bold Alpine ibex in cladogram.

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:26, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• it seems odd to have an entire paragraph on foreign common names, yet no mention of what the actual English common and specific name, ibex, means or derives from.

Ibex is a name used to describe several species. There's an ibex article for that. LittleJerry (talk) 17:26, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

But it's the specific name of this particular species, not any of the others, so it should be explained here. I could understand that rationale if it was only the common name, but it's the scientific name too. FunkMonk (talk) 21:32, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Added. LittleJerry (talk) 15:34, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• "Alpine ibex skull" State the sex, more important than repeating the name.

Done. LittleJerry (talk) 17:26, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• How are they physically distinguished from related species?

It already states "Compared with most other wild goats, the species has a wide, shortened snout" and "It is duller coloured than other members of its genus." LittleJerry (talk) 22:35, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• "Grass genera that are the most commonly eaten" I don't think "the" is needed here.

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 22:35, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from RoySmith

Lead

• goat antelope isn't mentioned in the body
• European Alps implies there are non-European alps
• one of seven species the body says "at least seven"
  • There's still a mis-match. The lead says one of seven species in the genus Capra (the the cladogram shows seven as well) but the body says classified in the genus Capra ... with seven other species of wild goats which implies there's a total of eight.

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 15:43, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• closet living relative is the Iberian ibex Other than spelling "closest", this isn't explicitly stated in the body although it can be inferred from the cladogram. Maybe that's good enough, whatever is generally accepted for animal species articles is fine
• coat colour is typically brownish grey the body states this a fact; why the need to equivocate in the lead with "typically"?
• scale nearly vertical surfaces not stated in body
• Probably not strictly a FACR, but it's almost impossible to see the one small orange ("introduced") patch in Slovenia. Maybe that could be called out in the caption to draw attention to it? Also, I'm curious why the map doesn't include the Bulgarian data. Could it be added?

The map is based on the IUCN. They don't give the Bulgarian data. LittleJerry (talk) 00:24, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed rest. LittleJerry (talk) 00:27, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Naming

No issues, but this is so short, maybe it doesn't need to be its own section?

Taxonomy

• Fossils ... are found ... a transitional fossil mismatch of number
  • Still a problem. The full sentence is Fossils of the genus Tossunnoria are found in late Miocene deposits in China and it appears to have been a transitional between goats and their ancestors. What does "it" refer to in "it appears"? Does it refer to "fossils", in which case you need "they appear". Or does it mean, "the species whose fossils were found", in which case you need to say that. Also, not clear what "a transitional" means. You need a noun in there somewhere. And now that I look at it, "are found" should probably be "have been found", unless you're trying to say that the finding is an ongoing activity.
• date back to delete "back"?
• during in the last glacial period "during" or "in", not both
• it probably evolved I guess the referent of "it" is the implied "species Alpine ibex", but it reads like "Fossils ... is".
• supported them as separate species, maybe "as being"?

Fixed all. LittleJerry (talk) 00:34, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Appearance

• a wide, and shortened snout use either the comma or "and", not both
• substantially larger than those of females, which reach only 18–35 cm (7.1–13.8 in) in length rephrase as "substantially longer ..." and drop "in length". Also "females, which reach only 18–35 cm" rephrase to make it clear that the horns are that long, not the female animals.
• A beard exists in males -> "males have beards", perhaps?

Fixed all. LittleJerry (talk) 00:39, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Distribution and habitat

• native to the Alps mountains I think you can just say "Alps" without having to specify that they're mountains.
• new areas like Slovenia and Bulgaria maybe "such as" instead of "like"? Or if those are the only two areas, leave it out entirely: "... as well as new areas in Slovenia and Bulgaria".

Fixed all. LittleJerry (talk) 00:50, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Behaviour and ecology

• zig-zag path on gradients of up to 155% Earlier, you talk about slopes in degrees. You should be consistent about which unit you use. Is a gradient of 155% greater or less than a slope of 45 degrees? Beats me. Maybe use {{convert}} to show both?

I have no idea how to convert them. LittleJerry (talk) 01:04, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.omnicalculator.com/math/slope-percentage plus WP:CALC. Also Gradient is the wrong place to link to. I think you want Grade (slope), which also has a table of sample conversions which will be useful as a sanity check on your math. RoySmith (talk) 01:52, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 16:58, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Reproduction and growth

• results in the birth of one but sometimes two kids -> "typically results ..."
• Males live for 16 years while females live 20 years I assume these are not hard-and-fast numbers, so "typically", "usually", "as long as", whatever.
• grow up to 20–25 mm -> "grow to 20-25 mm"
  • This is still weird. You've got grow 20–25 mm ... by two months. If you're describing how much their length increased, you want "... in two months" or maybe "... in the next two months". If you're describing what size they've reached at the end of that time, then you want "grow to ...". Also, comma instead of period after "In males. the horns grow..."
• about 8 cm (3.1 in) a year "per" instead of "a"
• slowing down -> "slowing".

Fixed all. LittleJerry (talk) 17:15, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mortality

• appear to have a low rate of predation. The source says "Predation is negligible"; why quibble with "appear to have"?

Fixed. LittleJerry (talk) 01:09, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Conservation

• due almost entirely due duplicate "due"
• hunting and poaching by humans why differentiate between these two? There may be a legal difference but from the point of view of the animal population, they're they same.
• with a population of 100 individuals was there an exact census, or does this need "about"?
• ibexes is the plural "ibex" or "ibexes". You use both.
  • Under "Appearance", "Ibex mould in spring" -> "Ibexes ..."
  • Under "Social life", "Male ibex fighting" (caption)

Fixed both. LittleJerry (talk) 15:43, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• However, having gone through a genetic bottleneck, they have low genetic diversity. Some people might object to starting a sentence, let alone a paragraph with "However". It's also odd that there's no obvious referent for "they". I mean, it's clearly, "the ibex population", but you have to go back to a previous paragraph to find that.
• highly deleterious mutations were lost ... also gained mildly deleterious ones. give some examples of both kinds.

That's way too techincal. Fixed rest. LittleJerry (talk) 23:19, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's it for me. RoySmith (talk) 00:17, 8 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A couple more items

• The image in "Behaviour and ecology" is not a great image. In the small thumbnail size, I can't tell what it is at all, and even looking at the full size version, it's hard to understand what's going on. Maybe one of the other images from c:Category:Cingino Dam would work better?
• In "Behaviour and ecology", did you intentionally use the British spelling of "Behaviour"? I'm guessing yes, since you also use "colour" If so, add {{British English}} to the talk page.

RoySmith; fixed all. LittleJerry (talk) 18:29, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RoySmith; fixed rest. LittleJerry (talk) 19:32, 10 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Anymore Roy? LittleJerry (talk) 15:43, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I've run out of things to complain about. RoySmith (talk) 16:02, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]