File talk:Electron Rocket on Liftoff.jpg
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of a fair use image as a replaceable image. Please do not modify it.
The result was to delete the image. ℯxplicit 00:03, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
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Replaceable fair use disputed
Given the presence of rather large quantities of images of the launch facility and the rocket itself on Google Images, it's effectively impossible to make an argument that getting a free license image of this rocket is impossible, as taking an image of it is obviously possible; we just don't have a free license one yet. This is a commercial installation, not a military one. It is not a 'black' project, in fact being so would be detrimental to their marketing. This is clear, unequivocal failure of WP:NFCC #1. --Hammersoft (talk) 04:46, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
- The launch site is on an remote peninsula in New Zealand with limited access. It's not a "Black site" but access is harder than driving to Cape Canaveral and setting up a camera. UnknownM1 (talk) 15:34, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
[Note: The above posts were originally posted on the file's page. I've moved them to this talk page so as to make the discussion easier to continue and also make it easier for others to participate. -- Marchjuly (talk) 00:12, 22 February 2018 (UTC)]
- Being "harder" to access does not preclude the possibility that someone did go and see the launch, which also means they could've taken pictures of it, which means a free equivalent is possible. This pdf even seems to be directed towards those wanting to come see this company's rockets launch. So, if they are giving people information on precautions, etc. to take when viewing one of their launches, then it's seems like someone can create a free equivalent. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:26, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
- I agree that if a fair use copy is produced, please by all means remove this file and replace it with that image. However as of right now, every picture I could find online either comes from news sources, by way of Rocket Labs, or Rocket Labs themselves. This is why I am asking for it to stay. I agree a fair copy would be better, and anyone who has one should produce it, but until then, the file should stay under fair use. UnknownM1 (talk) 03:45, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
- The current consensus regarding NFCC#1 is not necessarily that a non-free equivalent file needs to currenlty exists, but that it's reasonably considered possible for someone somewhere to create one. Moreover, it doesn't have to be exactly the same photo per se, but rather it just has to be sufficient to serve the same encyclopedic purpose (which in this case is identification). Just because you, I or Hammersoft have so far been unable to find a free image, does not mean a non-free is allowed to be used by default until someone does. There is no requirement that any article have any images added to them, and there are plenty of imageless Wikipedia articles which probably could have non-free images added to them if NFCC#1 was not part of the NFCCP. Perhaps you are misunderstanding something here in that the file is fair use, but Wikipedia's non-free content use policy requires more than just being fair use and is actually much more restrictive that fair use. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:35, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
- For those reading this page, this discussion originated at WP:MCQ#Education media. -- Marchjuly (talk) 04:41, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
- I concur with Marchjuly. UnknownM1, the consensus on the project at this time is that we do not retain non-free content until such time as free license content becomes available, if (per WP:NFCC #1) a free licensed alternative could be created. I understand your position on this, and many other people do as well. Our practice though is not to accept such images. Part (part) of the reason for that is that if we use a non-free content image when a free licensed alternative could be created, we create a situation where people are less motivated to find a replacement since there's already a picture on the article. --Hammersoft (talk) 13:36, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
- I agree that if a fair use copy is produced, please by all means remove this file and replace it with that image. However as of right now, every picture I could find online either comes from news sources, by way of Rocket Labs, or Rocket Labs themselves. This is why I am asking for it to stay. I agree a fair copy would be better, and anyone who has one should produce it, but until then, the file should stay under fair use. UnknownM1 (talk) 03:45, 22 February 2018 (UTC)
- Being "harder" to access does not preclude the possibility that someone did go and see the launch, which also means they could've taken pictures of it, which means a free equivalent is possible. This pdf even seems to be directed towards those wanting to come see this company's rockets launch. So, if they are giving people information on precautions, etc. to take when viewing one of their launches, then it's seems like someone can create a free equivalent. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:26, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it.
