Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 December 8

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was speedily deleted by RHaworth per WP:CSD#G8. (Non-admin closure.) Sideways713 (talk) 00:22, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Matt rissell → Matt Rissell  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

The page Matt Rissell has been speedily deleted. This redirect from the original article page, entitled Matt rissell, is therefore redundant and should also be deleted. Parkywiki (talk) 22:56, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. Deryck C. 19:33, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• The Automobile → Car  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Nobody is going to search this for a general topic rather than a specific topic of this name. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 22:03, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. Not notable usage of The, even if it is for inventions. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:28, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom. Over the last 90 days, this has received less than one hit per day, and I don't think that's enough traffic to justify keeping this. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 02:53, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was retarget to China Television. -- Tavix ^(talk) 23:05, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• China TV → Television in China  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Propose retargeting to China Television with hatnotes leading to other topics, because I see that as the most plausible topic, however, if I make a bold retarget, it may be controversial. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 20:56, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Chinese television also exists and that redirects also to Television in China, I am not too worried about that due to the capitalization, but it could also be a PTM for Chinese Television System and refer to Chinese language programming in general. I'll also note that Chinese Television is red. The hatnote at China Television should also point to Television in China (disambiguation) IMO, but I'm not going to change that. due to this discussion. zh:中國電視 is a dab, linking to both the corresponding articles for Television in China and China Television - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 21:02, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget to China Television per nomination, with a hatnote to the dab page. Thryduulf (talk) 23:06, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget per nom. Brand name. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:22, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget (and add hatnote) per nom. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 02:53, 13 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was retarget to Application software and hatnote to Computer Applications (UIL). -- Tavix ^(talk) 23:21, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Computer Applications → Computer  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Not sure if Computer Applications (UIL) should be moved to this title, but (disregarding that, which is why I brought it up for discussion) I suggest retargeting to Application software as the general article on computer is too general. I'm not seeing common usage of this term to refer to Computer Applications (UIL). - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 05:20, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Retarget to Computing which is where Applied computing redirects to. The links are mainly universities that have that title as a major. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 19:56, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Perhaps hatnote to Application software, then? On second thought, I am unsure if Computer Applications (UIL) is notable for an article. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 05:50, 25 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Retarget per nom (to Application software). This shouldn't have a different target than Computer applications. --BDD (talk) 18:14, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was keep and refine. -- Tavix ^(talk) 16:52, 18 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Wikipedia:Notability (clergy) → Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Wikipedia:Notability (priests) → Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 
• Wikipedia:Notability (religious leaders) → Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

In a nutshell, all of these are instantaneous WP:SURPRISEs, considering the list of existing pages that start with "Wikipedia:Notability (". Steel1943 (talk) 05:09, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Eh? They take the interested editor to the best page we have that discusses notability of religious readers. How isn't that helpful? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:50, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: @Piotrus: I also found a couple of similar pages: Wikipedia:Notability (religious figures) and Wikipedia:Notability (local churches and other religious congregations). Both are failed proposals, but they match the naming convention I stated above. Steel1943 (talk) 14:42, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That, and the current target page is not about what the titles of the redirects are meant to describe per precedence with such titles in the Wikipedia namespace. Most, if not all, other titles starting with "Wikipedia:Notability (" either are or redirect to a page which describes acceptable notability standards for subjects on Wikipedia, which is not the scope of the current target page. Steel1943 (talk) 14:49, 24 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

They are helpful, and WP:SURPRISE does not apply to Wikipedia-namespace redirects. I therefore oppose this deletion. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:40, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It honestly doesn't matter what namespace an essay is "supposed" to refer to when it comes to the heart of the comment. It is still a "surprise" due to established naming conventions in the "Wikipedia:" namespace. Imagine someone going to Wikipedia:Notability (sports), seeing an essay about notability for subjects related to sports, then going to Wikipedia:Notability (religious leaders), but for some reason being led to an essay about common deletion outcomes for any article. That right there is the very definition of a "surprise". Steel1943 (talk) 19:37, 28 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak keep and refine to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Common outcomes#Clergy. That section has a few concrete statements about notability. They're not misleading, and as a matter of practice, they're no less forceful than proper notability pages (cf.). Qualified vote because what's there really only covers a portion of the topic that's implied. Some of the bishops mentioned in the first bullet point are also priests, but the section doesn't discuss priests in general, nor any sort of clergy outside Christianity and Judaism. I hope we can expand the section or have a more authoritative place for such information, but in the meantime, these can clearly be helpful. --BDD (talk) 18:12, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Nominator comment: For the record, I see the value in the option and am okay with it, though still think deletion is the better option of the two for the reasons I stated above about precedence. Also, BDD, see Wikipedia:Notability (religious figures). Steel1943 (talk) 14:55, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was speedy deleted, G3, by Dweller. -- Tavix ^(talk) 17:47, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• List of genuine articles about wildfire caches under Kings Landing → Gotcha  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

I suspect this list would be empty. Delete. Narky Blert (talk) 17:17, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• I have speedied this as pure vandalism. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 17:29, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ^(talk) 22:52, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• B. U. Gosawi → Hindustan Janata Party  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

The target has no mention of this person. Marvellous Spider-Man 12:20, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment This redirect resulted from a recent AfD Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/B. U. Gosawi. There was poor participation in the AfD and if this chap is [no longer?] mentioned in the article, it seems an inappropriate outcome and I'd opt for delete. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 17:04, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:54, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was keep. Deryck C. 19:34, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Wikipedia:QURE → User:Worm That Turned/Quiet return  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

This is redirected at WTT's UserSpace Draft. Marvellous Spider-Man 06:16, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. The target is an essay, not a draft, and consensus has long been that WP redirects to userspace essays are acceptable in many cases and I don't see any reason why this essay should not have a shortcut if someone finds it useful. I will alert WTT to this discussion. Thryduulf (talk) 11:21, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep in the absence of any stated reason for deletion by the nominator. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 11:28, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per those above. Redirects from the project space to userspace essays are acceptable unless a rationale can be provided otherwise.— Godsy ^(TALK_CONT) 07:30, 11 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. Deryck C. 19:34, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Park Chung-hee(Dakaki Masao) → Park Chung-hee  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Two different alternative names combined into one, readers will usually only search for one, also note that there is no space before the left parentheses. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 05:44, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - I just don't think that this is helpful. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 06:53, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete no mention of Dakaki spelling at target. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:56, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. Deryck C. 19:35, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Haku Kinkei → Park Geun-hye  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• Hoku Kinkei → Park Geun-hye  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Not related to romanized Japanese. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 05:41, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:56, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was disambiguate. -- Tavix ^(talk) 22:47, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• President Lee → Lee Teng-hui  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

WP:XY not sure if dabifying is an option, for there is also Syngman Rhee, Li Xiannian or Lee Myung-bak (they are different transliterations for the same surname) and possibly others. See my comment at #President Donald. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 04:49, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - 'Li', 'Lee', et cetera are common enough names that multiple politicians exist which this can refer to. I wouldn't necessarily oppose creating a disambiguation page, I guess, but I question how helpful that decision would be. I think it's best to just let people search. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 06:58, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

For English speakers, names like 'Teng-hui" and "Myung-bak" can be hard to remember clearly and even harder to spell. In fact I created the redirection when I was trying to find the page for President Lee of Taiwan, couldn't remember how to spell his given name, and was surprised that "President Lee" didn't take me anywhere. Readin (talk) 03:13, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Disambiguate between Lee Teng-hui, Lee Myung-bak, and potentially others as a title and name disambiguation page. It may also be worth creating President Li as a disambiguation page and connecting the two via see also links. - Eureka Lott 04:17, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget to List of people with surname Lee There are presidents that aren't politicians too. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:58, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Disambiguate. I agree so much with Eureka Lott I'm just going to steal his text for how: Disambiguate between Lee Teng-hui, Lee Myung-bak, and potentially others as a title and name disambiguation page. It may also be worth creating President Li as a disambiguation page and connecting the two via see also links. Readin (talk) 03:06, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• SIA/disambiguate. I think we would benefit from an SIA for all people titled "President Lee". Deryck C. 14:00, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I've drafted an {{hndis}} beneath the RfD template.
• Disambiguate. This could also refer to Richard Henry Lee or Harold B. Lee, for example. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 20:58, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. Deryck C. 19:44, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Home Premium → Microsoft Windows  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Can either refer to Windows Vista editions or Windows 7 editions. WP:XY. - CHAMPION ^{(talk) (contributions) (logs)} 04:08, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Could it also refer to Home insurance or am I just making that up? I can see it being the name of many kinds of premium domestic service or product. Si Trew (talk) 04:24, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Weak delete it really depends on whether Microsoft has a trademark on the "Home Premium" phrase. Otherwise it's an WP:XY. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 21:04, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• • Comment UK-IPO and IP Australia searches find no trademarks containing "home premium" as an exact phrase. The USPTO search finds one live TIDY HOME PREMIUM HOME CLEANER PRODUCT and one dead PRAIRIE HOME PREMIUM ORGANIC BEEF that are both coincidental matches. I haven't looked at other countries, but it seems unlikely that Microsoft have chosen to trademark this phrase. Thryduulf (talk) 02:00, 16 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as vague and per WP:XY. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 20:59, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - I'm persuaded that this is not really helpful given the vagueness. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 12:11, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The result of the discussion was delete. -- Tavix ^(talk) 21:54, 17 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Edward Heath (1970-74) → List of life peerages  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• Harold Macmillan (1958-63) → List of life peerages  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• Harold Wilson (1964-70) → First Wilson ministry  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• Harold Wilson (1974-76) → List of life peerages  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• James Callaghan (1976-79) → List of life peerages  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• John Major (1990-97) → List of life peerages  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• Margaret Thatcher (1979-83) → List of life peerages  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• Margaret Thatcher (1987-90) → List of life peerages  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• Sir Alec Douglas-Home (1963-64) → Conservative government 1957–64#Douglas-Home’s Cabinet  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• Tony Blair (1997-2001) → List of life peerages  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• Tony Blair (2001-05) → List of life peerages  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• Tony Blair (2005-2007) → List of life peerages  (talk · links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

No incoming links, all of these redirects are also unlikely search terms and target the wrong page. Harold Macmillan served as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom from 1957, not 1958 (so that one should be speedily deleted per WP:R3). Perhaps we could retarget them all to each of their respective ministries, i.e. Heath ministry for the first redirect, and so on and so forth. I personally oppose doing that as I believe these redirects are all easily disposable, and the stats tell us that they're hardly even used.--Nevé–selbert 00:30, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete all as WP:RFD#D2 confusing. At first glance, you'd think they would be {{R from unnecessary disambiguation}} as their dates of birth and death, but oh! that can't be the case, because Major and Blair are still alive! Then surely must be a list of the dates of their life peerages? No, because... Major and Blair are still alive, and a life peerage lasts for... er... life. Ah! It's the dates that they recommended life peerages (i.e. in practice, awarded them). Which, in Macmillan's case, he didn't award any until the Life Peerages Act 1958 came into force, which is why it's 1958 not 1957, Nevé, isn't that bloody obvious?

  SimonTrew, with regard to retargeting Harold Macmillan (1958-63) to Conservative government 1957–64, it was a totally reasonable concern.--Nevé–selbert 23:10, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I know. I was being sarcastic, Néve. The idea of finding these things by knowing the start and end dates is too absurd to be otherwise. Si Trew (talk) 05:43, 9 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

As Néve has pointed out, I'm now looking at the target, List of life peerages and find it is a list of lists to split them up into three other articles. That's just... um... baffling; I now have to pick which list based on the date (not the name) that is in the bloody redirect, e.g. List of life peerages (1958–79)#Harold Macmillan (1958–63) for Harold Macmillan. Note: the dates arbitrarily compound a number of prime ministers, so I have to perform a bit of mental arithmetic and a memory feat or look at the "redirected from" indicator to work out that Macmillan (1958-1963) will be in the (1958-1979) list. (Why not instead have List of life peerages under Harold Macmillan, and so on? It's not as if there have been that many prime ministers since 1958: eleven, in fact, and we have four list articles, a list of lists, and ten redirects to navigate them, totalling fifteen.)

It's all just confusing and frustrating and I can't really see anyone searching this way. I can only see them being linked in an article or list dealing with the particular ministerial office, which would be rather circular. If we really want to keep them, we should retarget them to the lists proper. I'll also note that these use hyphens in their titles to separate dates, whereas the list articles use en dashes. (Please don't tell me there are en-dash versions too.) (Si Trew (talk) 04:32, 8 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• 'Comment. It was really just rather arbitrary to split the list the way it was, the discussion is at Talk:List_of_life_peerages#Split, where User:JRawle wrote "Should be split, but perhaps not one page per PM. How about three pages: pre-Thatcher; Thatcher and Major; and Blair and Brown. That would give three roughly equal pages". So the split was based on size rather than any more tangible criterion (split by Prime Minister, for example). I'd recommend revisiting the page split and seeing if we can rearrange them a bit more sensibly, the usefulness or otherwise of these Rs will then fall out of that. See other nominations at Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion#Life_peerages_created_by_John_Major_.281990.E2.80.9397.29. Si Trew (talk) 03:34, 10 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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