Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Demon Eyes Kyo

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep per additional sources found and noted below in this discussion, which must be added into the article. Bearian (talk) 19:20, 20 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Demon Eyes Kyo

This is a character that does not have real world information to establish notability. It is currently covered in the character list, and there is no current assertion for improvement. TTN (talk) 15:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional characters-related deletions. —Quasirandom (talk) 15:57, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletions. —Quasirandom (talk) 15:59, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm conflicted about this one. Given the character's popularity in chat boards (including his use in avatars and pictures), I strongly suspect this character can in fact demonstrate independent notability, but cannot at the moment demonstrate this for others. Nor, alas, do I have the time to do deep digging. Weak keep pending others finding evidence (hint: look for reviews that discuss him in some detail). If none is found by the end of this AfD, I will change that to (selective) merge per WP:FICT into the parent article, Characters of Samurai Deeper Kyo. —Quasirandom (talk) 16:11, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like there are enough secondary sources, in among the slew of primaries below, to establish notability. As Kyaa the Catlord notes, it's existance, not presence in the article, that matters -- the rest becomes a matter for cleanup. I'm changing that from weak to definitive keep. —Quasirandom (talk) 15:17, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Could the nominator explain what s/he means by the shorthand "current assertion for improvement"? —Quasirandom (talk) 16:33, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is nothing to show that this is more likely to gain sources then any other non-notable character. It does not have anything related to the real world besides a primary character poll, which most other manga have, to even assert notability. TTN (talk) 17:02, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into Characters of Samurai Deeper Kyo, with the cruft removed. Collectonian (talk) 17:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I'm rewriting the fictional biography anyways. Also, this guy's the main character. I don't see why he can't have his own article. True the article's a bit messy right now. But cut out the unnecessary stuff and the article would be alot better. No need to delete or merge. And no real-world stuff? Then I guess he doesnt' ahve his own video games. Or his own anime. or his own plush toy. Oh wait, he does!

A little plush toy thing GBA game http://www.gamespot.com/gba/action/samuraideeperkyo/index.html PS game http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/data/563131.html Phone Straps http://www.cartoonpassion.com/smdekyophstf.html Bandana http://www.cartoonpassion.com/sadekyoap.html

Now, what was that about no real-world info again? Hell Pyro (talk) 21:04, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Those are part of the series, not the character. TTN (talk) 21:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As TTN says, or might be saying if he weren't being unusually terse today, merchandizing doesn't in itself establish notability. You need to show people are talking about him and otherwise claiming he's notable. People outside of those trying to make a yen off him, that is. (Dang it, Kyo should not be cute, not even as a plush toy.) —Quasirandom (talk) 21:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

(To expand slightly, there's real-world information that establishes his existance, which merchandizing info provides, and then there's real-world information that establishes his notability. The latter's what needed to have an article about a fictional person. I REALLY wish people would stop speaking in a shorthand that allows the two to be confused by those who don't regularly read AfDs.) —Quasirandom (talk) 21:51, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Go search google. You've got people using his name as a screen name, naming pages after him, even making respect threads. Hell, there are also several forums I found. Hell Pyro (talk) 21:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Notability has to be established with reliable sources as notability is objective, not subjective. You need published materials describing the behind the scenes of the character and its reception. TTN (talk) 22:00, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

SDK artbook And there's also the interviews with Akimine Kamijyo, the author, in the DVDs. AND the character profiles and small interview and commentary made by the author in the manga volumes. Hell Pyro (talk) 22:18, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you show that those provide real world information based directly on the character, they'll work. Just naming them and hoping that they may have the information will do us no good, though. TTN (talk) 22:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's why Grimmjow's article got deleted. Oh wait. It didn't. Hell Pyro (talk) 22:58, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It wasn't deleted because of a bunch of fans. It has nothing to do with this one. TTN (talk) 22:59, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see that "bunch of fans" there. The reasons I see are legitimate. Grimmmjow has real world info, and major appearances in the manga. That is true for Demon Eyes Kyo as well, except that he's in every volume of the manga and that he is the main character. If you don't like the character, simply ignore the article. Don't go around randomly deleting everything you don't like. Hell Pyro (talk) 23:09, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Enough. Dodging around the issue does not help here. Show that the sources you've mentioned provide notability for that character, and this AfD can be promptly closed. Until then, attempting to use other articles to justify inclusion is not helpful. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 01:16, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to know what else you'll need. I've already listed several items that show real-world info AND shows that he's notable. Please tell me what else is needed an I'll post it here. Hell Pyro (talk) 01:43, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Instead of saying that the artbook and interviews do have information, then show such information in the article (naturally citing appropriately). It is then up to consensus here as to whether this information demonstrates sufficient out-of-universe context to satisfy WP:FICT. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 01:50, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alright then. I'll upload the author created demon Eyes Kyo profile first. Hopefully it will not be in japanese. Hell Pyro (talk) 01:57, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, since my scanner isn't worknig right now, I'll just tell you which volumes they are in for now, and hopefully be able to get the scans up by tomorrow. In volume 1, there's a short and comedic sequence where the author and several members of the team discuss on how they were going to tell Kyoshiro and Kyo apart. At the end of volume 4, there is a short profile of Kyo and Kyoshiro made by the author. There's also a note in one of the earlier volumes on how they maanged to make Kyo's sword look more realistic. Hell Pyro (talk) 02:07, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, here's the first of the many popularity polls made:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6574/324121aa4.jpg

The first of many "Nagao's world" Samurai Deeper Kyo parodys:

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6424/30555098gw9.jpg

Akimine Kamijyo and his team discussing over Kyo's name:

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/6068/82179872xw9.jpg

And here's a profile of Kyo and Kyoshiro, made by Akimine Kamijyo:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/241/scanoi1.jpg

If you need more tell me. Hell Pyro (talk) 06:50, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but none of those sources demonstrate real world notability. Everything you have presented is a primary source and thus does not lend itself to any standing outside of the character's fictional universe. Again, in order to pass Wikipedia:Notability (fiction), the character must have been the subject of significant critical commentary from reliable, verifiable secondary sources. As such, interviews with the author from such sources, substantive commentary from reviews and the like, and other things that show significant coverage are necessary for the article to establish its notability, wihch as of now, you have not done. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 06:58, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Looks like notability can be established, just has yet to be. There are no deadlines and deletion does not replace cleanup. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 07:00, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that the DVD has interviews with the author, Akimine Kamijuo. Unfortunately, I do not ow n the DVD. http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6654451 that interview might contain more info.

Also, maybe this site can count as secondary source? http://www.absoluteanime.com/samurai_deeper_kyo/kyo.htm
Also, it's getting hard to find more on him since the top hits are being clogged with screen names and thread titles.

Hell Pyro (talk) 07:27, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Delete no real world significance is asserted or shown even to exist. Eusebeus (talk) 15:55, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think this can count for notability: It seems that Kyo appeared in a commercial along with some characters from GetBackers (Commercials was for Magajin).
Here's the quote from volume 7, where I got the info from: "Did you see the TV ad for Kyo? Yup, there's a Kyo anime ad --it's being run as an ad for Magajin."
does that count as secondary source? Hell Pyro (talk) 21:43, 11 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but again the coverage received by the character has to be significant. Your above example can be construed as a trivial reference. The DVD interviews are not trivial, but as you cannot clarify (seeing as you do not own them) on whether they are related to the character at hand, nothing can be done. Recall that if it is merged per this discussion, you can always recreate the page should sufficient sources be found to satisfy WP:FICT. Regards, Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 07:44, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Merge into Characters of Samurai Deeper Kyo per WP:FICT. Although sources may exist, they are not presented now, and available sources hint that any references simply might be trivial. As of now, there is no critical reception on the character, nor any information that would establish real world notability. Sephiroth BCR ^(Converse) 07:53, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletions. -- Hiding T 10:29, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Don't delete. There's merit in both the merge and keep arguments, but the fact that we have no deadline leans me towards a merge. There's no deadline to clean the article up, true, but there's also no deadline not to merge the article, and a merge seems a suitable compromise until such point as an article can be established that better meets WP:V and WP:NOT. Hiding T 10:51, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can't believe I forgot this one: several calenders have been made featuring the characters from Samurai Deeper Kyo. Here's the one for February: http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9049/calendar1494929yx0.jpg . It seems like 1 is made every year (since I also saw this mention in one of the earlier volumes of the manga). And there's also the outtakes made exclusively for the dub only thing worth watching are the outtakes). Hell Pyro (talk) 21:05, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And here it is: the Official Samurai Deeper Kyo Fan Book: http://www.animaxis.com/en/productfiles/122328.asp . To quote the description,
" All you need to know about "SAMURAI DEEPER KYO" is here!

Those who are attracted by the "legend of Ogre-eye", this is a "must-have" fan book to read and to keep. The content includes character introductions from the main ones to the sub characters, story digest, character ranking and drawing contest, questions & answers to the characters, plus other important settings, a long interview to the author Akimine Kamijyo about the creating of "KYO", a special manga "Samurai Gakuen" (Samurai School) that can't be read anywhere else and so on. All the great 263 pages of info, pictures, and enjoyment." I'm guessing that meets the requirements? Hell Pyro (talk) 21:15, 13 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Multiple sources have been provided. Edward321 (talk) 03:46, 16 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.