Talk:Canadian Broadcasting Corporation

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Requested move 22 September 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (non-admin closure) -- Calidum 04:12, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]


– This appears to be the main topic for the name CBC on Wikipedia. —ÐW(T•C) 23:33, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: CBC titles a dab page with content, so it is ineligible unless it is also renamed. They forget to reflect facts. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 00:46, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose - while CBC is the branding, the full legal name remains Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and that should be the name of the article just as the name of the BBC's article is British Broadcasting Corporation or the article for ABC is American Broadcasting Company. There are cases where we do use the initials such as CBS but in that case the company legal changed its name from Columbia Broadcasting System Inc to CBS Inc in 1974. The CBC has never legally changed its name to its initialism. Similarly, NBC hasn't legally been the National Broadcasting Company for some time. Also, CBC does not have the same recognition internationally and there are a number of other entities that use the CBC initialism. Sowny (talk) 23:46, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
BBC is at BBC, not the full name, and for ABC, both the American and Australian companies have relatively equal claim to primary significance. This issue with ABC is rather unique, and I don't think that's the case for CBC. kennethaw88 • talk 01:29, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And the Caribbean Broadcasting Corporation? Sowny (talk) 01:56, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well I don't know about the BBC, perhaps the wikipedia article is wrongly named, but officially the CBC remains the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation so that should be the title. See [1] Conversely, CBS and NBC officially dropped their original names years ago and adopted the initialisms as their official names. CBS is run by the CBS Entertainment Group which in turn is owned by ViacomCBS - officially there hasn't been an entity called the Columbia Broadcasting System since the 1970s. Similarly, NBC is operated by NBC Entertainment, which is owned by NBCUniversal Television and Streaming and there hasn't legally been an entity called the National Broadcasting Company for decades. However, legally there is a Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. Sowny (talk) 02:47, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the Caribbean Broadcasting Corporation is also listed at CBC; what's your point? My point is that the comparison to ABC isn't really a good one, because in that case, the usage is roughly evenly split. That is not the case here. For example, here are the relative page views for Canada/Caribbean: [2]. Do you have other evidence that the usage for CBC is not so one-sided? kennethaw88 • talk 04:05, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You've ignored my main point. Do you have any evidence that the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation is no longer the CBC's legal name the way Columbia Broadcasting System is no longer CBS's legal name? Sowny (talk)
  • Oppose Not always known by the initials. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • CBC is overwhelmingly more used than the full name, like probably an order of magnitude.--Ortizesp (talk) 13:37, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • It may be used more frequently in Canada, but not around the world. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:30, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I doubt that usage of the full name is much different outside of Canada or that usage of the full name outside of Canada has a big impact, see: (https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=cbc,%2Fm%2F0hm0k) it is google trends so take it with a grain of salt blindlynx (talk) 20:01, 23 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Curious. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:07, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Sowny. Metric Supporter 89 (talk) 02:32, 29 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 22 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Andrewa (talk) 19:13, 30 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Canadian Broadcasting Corporation → CBC/Radio-Canada – Although the broadcaster is officially known as the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, it is often referred to as CBC/Radio-Canada because its French networks use the name Radio-Canada. —ÐW(T·C) 21:13, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support This name is the name of the corporation but this article is about the Radio side of the corporation. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:17, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for actually making sense! —ÐW(T·C) 04:22, 29 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. This is the English Wikipedia. We should use only the official name in English. --  Denelson83  21:56, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Um, this article is in the location of this corporation's official name and it only discussed the radio systems. They are currently named CBC Radio One and CBC Radio Two and are collectively called CBC/Radio-Canada to distinguish it from Radio International. https://cbc.radio-canada.ca/en See what comes up just at https://www.cbc.ca/. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:45, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
So there should be no article on Wikipedia with the name "Canadian Broadcasting Corporation"? And what's "Radio International"? And there is a section in this article discussing the corporation's television assets. It does not just focus on radio. --  Denelson83  07:57, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not my point. This article Could probably be a general one about the CBC while the separate media entities could have their own articles. Radio Canada International is Radio Canada International. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:43, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - discussion is moot until proposer actually demonstrates that the preponderance of independent, reliable sources refer to this company as such. -- Netoholic @ 17:56, 23 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose for reasons unknown to Wikipedia policy. --Wtshymanski (talk) 19:42, 26 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Denelson83. Peter Ormond 💬 03:15, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Denelson83. — Eric0892 (talk) 05:05, 27 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
You all just love love this "Denelson83" rando, don't you? —ÐW(T·C) 04:22, 29 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

‘’’Oppose’’’ per Denelson83 Newfiebluejay (talk) 14:02, 29 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Sourcing for CBC Allegations of Bias

Hello all,

I am starting on a project to bring improved rigor and evidence to Wikipedia's representations of the bias of major media outlets in Canada. I have started with the CBC. I would like to add some objective perspective to the "Allegations of Bias" section for the CBC page.

It has been challenging finding solid acceptable sources to allow for evidence-based discussion. I agree some media bias rating sites have very questionable methodology. Media Bias/Fact Check is judged an unacceptable source. AllSides seems more substantial and is not judged unacceptable but does not have a CBC entry.

There are a few surveys, in this case commissioned by the CBC itself and/or undertaken by well regarded external survey groups (such as Ipsos Reid and Abacus) looking into the biases and balance of Canadian media outlets. I would like to make brief summmary reference to them on the CBC page.

I propose an edit to add a summary statement along the lines of the below:

"Surveys have found a perception of centre-left/Liberal Party bias in the CBC among the Canadian public. [1][2][3][4][5]"

The statement is deliberately crafted not to say the CBC definitely has a particular bias, but that these sources at least indicate there is a public perception of a Liberal Party/centre-left bias.

I welcome any constructive feedback on the potential sources and edit. My intention is to have greater evidence-based discussion to be able to hold all media outlets to public account. Apologies on any vocabulary or formatting issues. I have only recently joined the editing effort.

Balancingakt (talk) 03:16, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like a great project. Do be aware that there are sources that are not considered reliable. I don't know much about this, but @Manticore: and @RenatUK: may. Walter Görlitz (talk) 06:00, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the redirect, Walter. FYI using the same sources, I am working to add similarly structured statements to the pages for the National Post, The Globe and Mail, CTV News, and Global News. I have located those statements in "Political stance" sections on each of their pages, as per the way the Globe's page was already structured. To clarify: I propose to add the statement to the "Allegations of Bias" in the "Controversy" section of the CBC's page, so as to not disrupt the framing and flow of what already exists.Balancingakt (talk) 17:05, 7 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It appears no objections. Last call before I execute the edit?Balancingakt (talk) 02:20, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Great project, but the people who deleted your earlier edits have not discussed. You may want to {{ping}} them. I do not see consensus here. Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:51, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Manticore: @RenatUK: last call on feedback or objections? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Balancingakt (talk • contribs) 21:58, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Silence is not consensus. Walter Görlitz (talk) 03:27, 11 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Is CBC Really Biased?". December 1, 2002. Retrieved September 6, 2021.
  2. ^ "CBC Television News has a bias problem". July 1, 2002. Retrieved September 6, 2021.
  3. ^ "The News Fairness and Balance Report" (PDF). September 2010. Retrieved September 4, 2021.
  4. ^ "Canadian News Media And "Fake News" Under A Microscope". April 29, 2017. Retrieved September 6, 2021.(registration required)
  5. ^ "Survey suggests large number of Canadians have likely read 'fake' news stories". April 29, 2017. Retrieved September 7, 2021.

Ownership of the CBC

Is the CBC owned by the Canadian Government, or as a crown corporation, is its ownership something different? Also, is it necessary to placate Canada's right wing political factions by making the outright claim of such ownership such as was done here (and again two edits later after a revert)? Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:59, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

AFAIK, the CBC is funded by the federal government. GoodDay (talk) 19:22, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Crown corporations are state owned enterprises. As CBC is a federally owned crown corporation, it is owned by the Government of Canada. My edit was not done in bad faith and was made with no political motivations. Michael60634 (talk) 19:25, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Funded by does not mean owned by. They are not state-owned. And by definition, and a bit of wikilawyering, they are owned by the crown with the government acting on its behalf.
I never claimed your edit was in bad faith (unlike you who called me a vandal in your revert and on mt talk page) but I do believe that it was done with political motivation. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
It is incorrect to say, as was done in the reverted edit, that the owner is the Government of Canada. Crown corporations are, unsurprisingly, owned by the Crown. There is no reason this article would delve into the nature of crown corporations or the broader constitutional structure of Canada.--Trystan (talk) 19:28, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The CBC is an agent of the Crown in right of Canada, which is an alternative name for the Government of Canada; it holds its property in the name of the Crown in right of Canada; it cannot sell real estate over a certain value without the permission of the federal Cabinet; it can borrow money from the federal government; it needs permission from the federal Minister of Finance to borrow money from other sources; the corporation is composed of the board of directors, all of whom are appointed by the federal Cabinet. Source: Broadcasting Act, Part III: Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 19:39, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The infobox already indicates that the organization is a crown corporation, so it would be redundant to identify the owner as the Crown in right of Canada, or to indicate that there is government oversight, as those things are inherent in the nature of a crown corporation. Capitalized, the term Government of Canada typically refers to the executive branch, so its use to describe what is more correctly described as the Crown is likely to be misleading to the reader.--Trystan (talk) 20:36, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It is disingenuous to claim that an edit you disagree with is politically motivated. Michael60634 (talk) 19:37, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The news & the olympics are basically what's left, in terms of what CBC broadcasts, now. GoodDay (talk) 19:41, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
On TV, Murdoch Mysteries and much more. On radio, it is unsurpassed.
Also, re-reading what I wrote above, I can see how Michael60634 could assume I was suggesting that the editor was allied with a political viewpoint. I simply meant to write that this is the viewpoint of a certain political faction. I have no way of knowing the editor's political affiliation. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:48, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would strongly recommend linking to Crown corporations of Canada, and be done with it in this article. That's what wikilinks are meant to do. PKT(alk) 20:29, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There is already a piped link to Crown corporations of Canada, at the top of the infobox under "Type".--Trystan (talk) 20:36, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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